Mar 9, 2026
Sydney Trains frontline staff face customer aggression daily. They knew the de-escalation models. Applying them under real pressure was another matter entirely. And they'd made one thing clear: no more role play.
In this episode, The Two Michelles speak with Ryan Byrne from Sydney Trains and Dr Nathan Moore from Frameless Interactive about Project CIVIL: Customer Initiated Violence Interactive Learning. Winner of the AITD Excellence Award for Best Use of Learning Technology 2025, Project CIVIL uses AI-driven simulation to build genuine capability under pressure, without a script, without an actor, without the awkwardness of traditional role play. A masterclass in choosing the right tool for the right problem.
Host: Michelle Ockers & Michelle Parry-Slater
Transcript and related resources: https://learninguncut.global/podcast/181/
Podcast information and more episodes: https://learninguncut.global/podcast/