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The Deep Map

Dec 30, 2022

In a famous 1529 essay, the Protestant reformer Martin Luther described the Turks as the “rod of the wrath of the Lord our God” -- but Luther isn’t alone in playing up the violent tendencies of an entire nation. Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Bulgarians, Russians, Serbs, and Arabs all have sayings about the Turks, none of which are very flattering. But who are the Turkic peoples who rule countries like Türkiye and Azerbaijan today? What are some of the national and religious narratives that shape their view of the world? And why do their leaders seem so determined to eradicate Armenians from their homeland?

In this bonus episode, Robert sits down with Uzay Bulut, a dissident Turkish journalist and senior research fellow at The Philos Project, to answer these questions in a moving discussion about coming-of-age in a repressed society.

Uzay Bulut is a journalist, political analyst, and Senior Research Fellow at The Philos Project. Her writings have appeared in Modern DiplomacyWashington Times, Christian Post, Jewish News Syndicate, Al-Ahram Weekly, Gatestone Institute, American Spectator, Providence Magazine, and Jerusalem Post.  She has participated in the 2018 Human Dimension Implementation Meeting of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) and the 2019 Oslo Freedom Forum of the Human Rights Foundation, where she raised issues of human rights in Türkiye and other regions.



[00:02:30] Uzay’s upbringing in a Turkish nationalist stronghold and what led her to become a journalist and Turkish dissident 

[00:12:53] Overview of the Turkish/Kemalist nationalist narrative  

[00:15:46] The Turkish nationalist take on the Armenian Genocide and the history of the indigenous Christian and Jewish communities in the region 

[00:25:07] Overview of Erdogan’s AK Party and its blending of Islamism and Turkish Nationalism 

[00:32:06] Turkish influence beyond Turkey: Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, etc. 

[00:33:10] The dream of a pan-Turkic superstate and the enduring Armenian obstacle 

[00:40:23] Future of Armenia: is normalization with Turkey and Azerbaijan prudent? 

[00:44:48] How the United States can protect Armenians and other Christian minorities from Turkish aggression 


Further Reading

Sheri Oz, “Exiled non-Jewish Turkish woman studies antisemitism in Turkey. Interview with Uzay Bulut,” Israel National News (Dec. 27, 2022).

Uzay Bulut, “Azerbaijan Desecrates Armenian Cultural and Religious Heritage,” Providence (Dec. 13, 2022).

Uzay Bulut, “Azerbaijan Is Torturing and Beheading Armenians,” Providence (Dec. 5, 2022).

Uzay Bulut, “Who Are the Extremist 'Grey Wolves'?” Gatestone Institute (Nov. 29, 2021).

Uzay Bulut, “Azerbaijan and Turkey’s genocidal assault against Armenians,” Modern Diplomacy (Dec. 16, 2020).