EP18 - (Live) The Future of Marketing: Three Perspectives

May 8, 2024

CMA Marketing Week 2024 kicked off with a discussion with Eva Salem, Senior Vice President of Marketing and Brand at Canadian Tire, Steve Levy, COO at Ipsos Canada and Ashley Faccenda, Marketing Manager at Kruger Products for a live taping of CMA Connect.

 

00:00:00:17 - 00:00:24:16
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business news with your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson.

00:00:24:18 - 00:00:44:19
Alison
We're thrilled to see so many CMA members joining us in person today, along with hundreds of marketers from across Canada who are attending virtually. I'm excited to kick off our inaugural CMA marketing week, presented by Google with today's distinguished panel and great discussion. We're leaving lots of room for Q&A as well, and looking forward to having you engage in the debate. Before we kick things off, I'll introduce myself.

00:00:44:19 - 00:01:09:02
Alison
I'm Alison Simpson, the president and CEO for the Canadian Marketing Association. The marketing profession is undergoing seismic shifts from rapidly evolving technologies and marketplaces, to changing consumers and disruption around the very nature of marketing and the CMA role itself. Tips for marketing. Today, we have a dynamic panel of CMA Award winners who span multiple vantage points in different career stages.

00:01:09:04 - 00:01:32:00
Alison
Joining us is Eva Salem, our 2023 CMA Marketer of the Year Award winner and the Senior Vice President of Marketing Brand at Canadian Tire. As someone charged with driving business and brand growth and consumer connections, Eva offers an inside view of how established brands are future proofing their marketing amid massive disruption. Also joining us is Steve Levy from Ipsos Canada.

00:01:32:02 - 00:01:55:09
Alison
Steve brings a wealth of experience from a career spent in sales, brand marketing and the world of consumer insights. Steve was awarded CMA's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2021. He's also one of the best connected people in our profession, so I know he's that many fans in our audience today. And rounding out the panel, we have Ashley Faccenda,   our inaugural winner of the CMA AIM Award, which recognizes emerging talent.

00:01:55:11 - 00:02:15:17
Alison
Ashley is a marketing manager at Kruger Products and brings a vital perspective of marketing's rising stars and future leaders with their diverse backgrounds and different career perspectives. Eva, Steve and Ashley are well-positioned to help us tackle the big issues that are shaping marketing's road ahead. They're also very open to some healthy debate, so it promises to be thought-provoking as well.

00:02:15:19 - 00:02:37:11
Alison
Together, we're discussing their perspectives on where marketing is headed and what we need to do as a profession to ensure that we can thrive in the months and years ahead. From the implications of AI to the imperative of better serving Canada's growing newcomer population, we're tackling some of the biggest opportunities and challenges facing marketers today. So let's dive in.

00:02:37:13 - 00:03:04:18
Alison
We're going to open with the question - is today the golden age of marketing? In my recent conversation with Raja Rajamannar, the global CMO for Mastercard and author of Quantum Marketing, he shared that he sees the months and years ahead as the golden age of marketing. Here's his view. This era is driven by exponential disruptions, good and bad, in consumers'-  lives that are caused by a deluge of emerging technologies.

00:03:04:19 - 00:03:27:15
Alison
The resulting changes in the consumer landscape are a call for marketers to tap into the dynamics of the new paradigm and reinvent their entire approach. We're at the start of the golden age of marketing, in his opinion, because our profession is uniquely positioned to thrive, because marketing is fundamentally about understanding people and then creating solutions for them the right way.

00:03:27:17 - 00:03:45:04
Alison
Plus, marketers are best suited to lead and manage the changes in the consumer, business and marketing landscape. So we're going to do a quick rapid fire - yes or no - to our panel. Eva, Steve and Ashley, in your opinion, are we at the start of the golden age of marketing?

00:03:45:06 - 00:03:49:09
Eva
I'm going to go with no, not in the traditional sense.

00:03:49:11 - 00:03:53:19
Steve
I'm going to go with no and yes, but I'll come back and explain why.

00:03:53:21 - 00:03:55:04
Alison
Absolutely, Ashley.

00:03:55:04 - 00:03:58:10
Ashley
And my answer is yes, but...

00:03:58:14 - 00:04:05:19
Alison
Ok. Absolutely. So we promised some healthy debate. We're clearly off to a good start. So Steve, I'm going to start with you. Why yes and no.

00:04:05:21 - 00:04:46:06
Steve
So first of all, a little bit of context. It was most certainly the case that marketers and agencies thought that they created culture. We overstated really what we did. I mean, in many respects, what we've been doing is reflecting it and maybe borrowing from it. So that said, why no and yes. So no, in the sense that if golden age is defined by big budgets, big departments, big impact or assumed impact, and an autonomy that multinational marketers have in this country, then the answer is probably no.

00:04:46:08 - 00:04:56:12
Steve
Yes, in the sense that there's not a golden age. But I do think there's a new age. And I do think the new age is very exciting.

00:04:56:13 - 00:05:33:21
Eva 
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think if you think of marketing as exclusively in the space of brand building and sort of traditional marketing, yeah, I don't think it's the golden age. I think if you're willing to take your superpower of really understanding customers, which is what the core of marketing is, and allow that to become a real driver towards moving business forward, looking at things as growth opportunities, impact opportunities, then I think the world is limitless.

00:05:33:23 - 00:05:59:12
Eva
But I think we are expected to know more and do more than we've ever done. And if we can accept that challenge and do it properly, then yeah, I think the golden age awaits. I think if we're hoping to go back to the simplified view of yesteryear in terms of the lane that was marketing, I don't I think that'll only get you so far.

00:05:59:13 - 00:06:08:16
Alison
So Ashley, as the youngest person on the panel, it actually gives me great comfort that you were the most positive. We all hedged our bets, but you were the most positive, so I'd love to hear why.

00:06:08:18 - 00:06:27:05
Ashley
It was a yes, BUT. So why I would say yes right now is. Again, even in my short career over the past five years, I think we've seen a significant change. However, if I were to ask myself this question in 30 years, I believe the answer will be yes. And me? Myself. Looking back as today, the answer would be no.

00:06:27:05 - 00:06:45:14
Ashley
So I believe there's going to be more significant change. I think it's going to be even faster pace, more dynamic shifts. However, I believe in 30 years the answer would be yes. As of right now, I have seen a significant change. So I will say yes as well. But I think we're going to again, continue to see a larger impact as the years to come.

00:06:45:14 - 00:06:50:12
Ashley
Bigger budgets, more channels, just absolute faster pace.

00:06:50:13 - 00:07:09:06
Alison
I think that's great insight, especially five years into your career. When I think back 30 years ago when I started my career, there's no way I could have anticipated what marketing is like today. And to be honest, that's a big part of what I love about our profession and the opportunities. And for some of our more senior people on the panel,  of me being the probably the most senior.

00:07:09:08 - 00:07:27:11
Alison
The fact that we can now reach out one on one, the fact that we can now measure what we do in a way that was a dream for me five years into my career. For me, it really does represent the start of the golden age of marketing. Now, Eva, what would need to change, in your opinion, to make this truly the start of the golden age?

00:07:27:13 - 00:07:55:22
Eva
Yeah, I think growing our area of influence is really what we're talking about. Right. So it's that being the executive leader at the table, having the conversations about how to drive business forward. So I think we obviously traditionally have done that to some extent, but always with Lane of a marketing lens. And I think now it's sort of more of the creative problem solving to business problems

00:07:55:22 - 00:08:27:00
Eva
On steroids , it's that we're going to need to be open to and be at the forefront of for our organizations. So I think truly, in my mind it's a more exciting time than it's been in the past. If you can get over how complicated it is and the pace of change and the fact that it's nerve wracking and the whole, I'd say for me personally, being an expert in an area was very comforting.

00:08:27:01 - 00:08:48:18
Eva
And that was always sort of what I could bring to a table. And being more open to the fact that we're going to be an areas where we're not necessarily experts, but we need to be involved in those conversations. A) so that we can learn from them and B) so that we can contribute and put us on a, I think, more forward looking path.

00:08:48:20 - 00:09:05:22
Alison
It's definitely not a profession for the faint of heart, and having that profile and voice at the C-suite is mission critical. So and building credibility across the organization, and you clearly done a good job of it. So do you have any tips or recommendations on how the people joining us today can learn from your experience?

00:09:06:00 - 00:09:29:13
Eva
Yeah, I mean, I've always just been a super curious person. So I've tried to just keep learning as I go. So wherever there are opportunities to take on more or to be exposed to different things, I raise my hand, even though it is nerve wracking and stressful and more work. But yeah, I mean, my portfolio used to be sort of traditional marketing communications.

00:09:29:13 - 00:10:01:20
Eva
What everyone would expect. From there, I added on, someone needed to do more of the ESG stuff at our corporation. So that environment, sustainability, that side of things. I volunteered. It helped me learn a lot, and it helped the corporation because traditionally that was an area that was largely run by legal and governance. And having a brand person on that really, I think, made a difference, more of the storytelling than engaging our employees,

00:10:01:22 - 00:10:34:23
Eva
figuring out how to talk to the street about it. Those are things that aren't quote unquote, traditional marcom jobs, but the marcom skills really helped be able to do something like that. And now I even have communications for the corporation, which also, different skill set, but at the end of the day is about speaking with our employees, speaking with our from a government relations perspective, from an investor relations perspective, it's still the same core capabilities, just being used in different ways to stay relevant.

00:10:35:00 - 00:10:39:08
Alison
That's great. Now, Steve, how do we get you from no yes to just yes?

00:10:39:10 - 00:11:06:11
Steve
I'm not I'm not sure you can make that shift for me, but what I would do is perhaps pick up on a couple of points that Eva made. And the primary one is this notion of the seat at the table. I think that's a challenge in marketing for a number of reasons, but the one I would pick today is that not only has technology fragmented media, but in so doing it's also fragmented fame.

00:11:06:13 - 00:11:35:14
Steve
And when you think about the the idea that the most senior people in organizations, they love that aura around being associated with fame and the and the advertising, if you like, that was connected to that fame. That doesn't exist today in the same way that it did. And so fragmentation of media and therefore fame has made the challenge for marketing to have the ear of the CEO that much more difficult.

00:11:35:16 - 00:11:44:13
Alison
Now, Ashley, when we were talking as a group preparing for a bit this morning, we talked about do we have an advertising and marketing clutter problem? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

00:11:44:16 - 00:12:04:17
AShley
Yeah. my answer to this one is yes. I think ourselves as consumers, we can't deny within the media landscape, again, just the clutter and all the brands that are working within the space and all the new channels and all the different brands that are there, I think now more than ever it's changing and how we're reaching consumers through media.

00:12:04:19 - 00:12:23:13
Ashley
It's not just about this great creative that's breaking through the noise. It's really about reaching that right audience with that right message and really connecting with them on a meaningful way. I think now more than ever, as consumers are expecting that from brands. So I think, yes, there is a problem within the space and it's it's we're adapting to that and adjusting our ways.

00:12:23:17 - 00:12:33:11
Alison
And Steve, as we were chatting, you also said, do we have a pretty picture problem and not enough focus on the business impact that we as a profession make? So I'd love you to share your thoughts on that.

00:12:33:12 - 00:12:55:12
Steve
Yeah, I mean, do we have a pretty picture problem. I'm not I'm not sure we do or and I suspect I would agree with Ashley. But what I do think is we have a specialization conundrum, in the sense that marketing has become necessarily much more specialized. You know, when I was a young brand marketer, I had four lines on my PNL.

00:12:55:12 - 00:13:21:01
Steve
You know, TV, radio, print and outdoor. So my life compared to your life was extremely simple. But what the specialization conundrum does is it forces you guys into very narrow lanes. And does that, in effect, move you away from the bigger picture, from the holistic picture of, how is the total business doing if you're operating in a narrow lane?

00:13:21:01 - 00:13:26:02
Steve
I think maybe it does. I don't know what the answer is, which is why I describe it as a conundrum.

00:13:26:04 - 00:13:35:06
Alison
So Eva, we've all grown up with the four PS of marketing. So much around us has changed. Do you think the four PS are still relevant?

00:13:35:08 - 00:14:00:00
Eva
Yeah, I mean, I think the four PS are important as a as business principles have been, will be, and I can't see a scenario in which they aren't, but I do see them as table stakes. I don't think brands can really differentiate to the level that they're going to need to on the backs of the four PS anymore, like think about product and endless aisle and price.

00:14:00:00 - 00:14:33:05
Eva
You can find every price around the world on every item in two seconds. They're not differentiators anymore. I think we need to figure out the truly, at the end of the day, the value added experience you offer customers and the overall ability to connect with customers is going to be the thing that differentiates brands. And as we talk about all the fragmentation and how complicated it's getting, I believe there's a shake up about to happen.

00:14:33:07 - 00:15:01:22
Eva
I think there's too many brands, too many products, too much stuff, too many people trying to sell without enough real differentiation or reason for being. So. I think you will see a bit of a culling, if you will. because there's just too much of everything right now, and a lot of it is the same. So not being depressing about it, I don't want to be depressed, but I think it's on brands to really figure out how they're different.

00:15:02:00 - 00:15:08:02
Eva
And if you can't figure that out, I do think you won't be able to.

00:15:08:04 - 00:15:12:23
Alison
Well, if you overlay ESG... 

00:15:12:23 - 00:15:33:23
Eva
All the things! The way that we're producing, all of that stuff, it's got to come to a point. And so you will have these moments where you're like, what is this brand about? What is this service about? And if you can't answer that in a way that's different than the other brand and the other service, I don't think we're just going to continue producing into perpetuity.

00:15:34:01 - 00:15:47:10
Alison
Now, on a more optimistic note, you talked abou,t we as marketers have an incredible superpower, and that is understanding people and consumers in a way that no one else in the organization, and the C-suite can. So I'd love you to share a little bit about that.

00:15:47:12 - 00:16:23:10
Eva
Yeah, I mean, I that's the thing that at the end of the day, you would think with all this more and more and more, we would be better, better, better. And in many instances we're not. And I think it's because there's not enough time spent on figuring out what is your differentiator, what is the impact that you want to have, so that at the end of the day, your ability to articulate that, to mobilize an organization around that, to have that be the North Star that guides your product, production and your pricing strategy and all those kinds of things.

00:16:23:12 - 00:16:56:14
Eva
in a fulsome way that is not fragmented is ultimately what will enable companies to be healthy going forward or not. So yeah, I do, I think, like, I'm excited for the future of marketers because I think most people don't intuitively think that way. Most people around the table don't. And I'm always amazed when I sit in cross-functional groups how siloed a lot of my colleagues are based on their discipline.

00:16:56:16 - 00:17:06:04
Eva
And I find marketers have, generally speaking, a more fulsome view to a problem. And I think we can really leverage that.

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:16:20
Alison
You know, Steve, you have such exposure to many different industries. You've been on both the marketer side and the research side. So what do you think about the super power of marketers really being our understanding of people?

00:17:16:22 - 00:17:38:19
Steve
So I mean, obviously I'm very biased because I live in that world. But but before it helps comment on that, I'm going to come back to something you said. So the four P's like either I agree that they are still relevant, but they've all become way more complicated. If I pick the P that used to be for me as a brand marketer, the simplest, which was pricing.

00:17:38:21 - 00:18:01:01
Steve
That's perhaps now the most complicated. We never dealt with dynamic pricing. Many of you guys might. We never dealt with surge pricing. Many of you guys might. Today, you know, people build models around pricing. Years past, simpler issue. I've forgotten the second question that you asked me now.

00:18:01:03 - 00:18:07:15
Alison
So from a marketing superpower is the people, if you had to give us a superpower, what would it be?

00:18:07:17 - 00:18:31:01
Steve
The superpower of the market marketer. The optimistic side of me would say that the marketer has a hand in many facets of the business. The optimistic side of me would say that, and that would be their superpower, to look out across all of the business and pull the string.s Again, that's an optimistic view of the world. But but perhaps that's the one I would have.

00:18:31:03 - 00:18:35:01
Alison
And, Ashley, if you were going to give marketers a superpower and had to pick one, what would it be?

00:18:35:03 - 00:18:51:18
Ashley
Again, I think it's going to all come back to the consumer really, really understanding the consumer when we talk about, are the four Ps still relevant? I think, yes, the foundation of the four Ps are still irrelevant, or relevant, but the strategies that fall with under the four Ps are, again, really, really driven by understanding that consumer.

00:18:51:18 - 00:19:06:08
Alison
So now one of the realities that we as marketers are dealing with today is balancing long term brand building with short term results. So Ashley, I'd love to hear your thoughts and experience and how you're balance, helping to balance those two things.

00:19:06:10 - 00:19:27:17
Ashley
I think both are extremely important. I feel a little bit of a sense of pressure to deliver short term, I think, to drive the business. Stakeholders want to see immediate results, but I think it's our obligation as marketers to understand and push the agenda that we need long term strategy, brand building initiatives. So I do find that we need both.
 
00:19:27:17 - 00:19:45:13
Ashley
But again, I think there's a little bit more pressure to deliver that short term. But we do need that overarching long term strategy to build those brands. Those iconic brands were built overnight. So I think again, having that balance of both, but it's really on us to support the long term agenda of these brands and sustainability of them.

00:19:45:15 - 00:20:05:06
Eva
If I can just add to that, especially in the recession and the times that we're facing right now, I will say the race to the bottom is one that is very cyclical and brands get into it before they know it and you used to have to give off 40%. And then before you know it, you're giving off 60% and then you're giving off whatever.

00:20:05:08 - 00:20:45:18
Eva
And it's fundamentally because that balance is not where it needs to be. That ability to invest enough to stay relevant so that you don't have to discount beyond reasonable parameters, and so that you're not hooked on week over week sales and day over day sales. I think that is a real place for marketers to be vocal and speak, and be the real voice of reason, because digging yourself out of those kinds of decisions is very costly and hurts profitability and hurts the business.

00:20:45:20 - 00:20:52:07
Eva
So that's another way that I think this group really has a role and a responsibility to play.

00:20:52:09 - 00:21:13:03
Steve
Of course, that question is very connected to this building, very connected to this building, because when we talk about the long and the short balance, the stock market drives the short, there are there are lots of studies out there now that talk to this balance between the long and the short, they're all super interesting. They're all worth looking at.

00:21:13:03 - 00:21:26:10
Steve
And and if I were to make one comment about them, is that the long and the short balance does vary by sector. You know, some sectors are way more skewed to the short than others.

00:21:26:12 - 00:21:45:17
Alison
Great point. So we're going to see how optimistic our audience is. So the people that are here in person and for people that are joining us virtually, you can message in the chat raise your hand if you think we're at the start of the golden age of marketing. Well, that's pretty evenly split. So we'll we'll see what our virtual members from across the country have to think as well.

00:21:45:19 - 00:22:09:13
Alison
So now we're going to talk about switch gears and talk about how to connect with Canada's diverse communities. So most of us know that newcomers are absolutely core to the growth and future of Canada's economy, and certainly our growth. They're also an incredibly broad and diverse group. So the experience of a newcomer in their very first year to Canada is fundamental, different from five, ten and 15 years into it.

00:22:09:15 - 00:22:26:17
Alison
Plus, Canada is starting to see newcomers come to our country with high expectations and then opt out because we're not delivering on what they expected. So I'm going to start with Steve. What marketing opportunities and challenges exist in reaching newcomers and immigrant populations in Canada?

00:22:26:19 - 00:22:57:14
Steve
I think there's two fundamental points to be made. One is that I think as as we interact with marketers, their approach to newcomers has really changed. And it's changed from the scenario where marketers felt that they could market to specific newcomers based on their different cultural heritages, which was both practically and economically not viable in this country.

00:22:57:16 - 00:23:27:20
Steve
And now, notwithstanding the 1 to 1 marketing scenario, not practical. And so what we've seen as many marketers move to the scenario where they focus first and foremost, not on differences, but on commonality. And that commonality, of course, is everyone's coming to the same place. So that would be the first point. The second, which very much speaks to opportunity, is to think long and hard about the journey that newcomers take.

00:23:27:22 - 00:23:44:02
Steve
And that journey doesn't start when they get off the airplane. It starts long before that. And so to think about the points where brands can intersect with that journey to influence the newcomer.

00:23:44:04 - 00:23:52:04
Alison
Now, Ashley, I know you've got some great experiences targeting newcomers from a career perspective, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and any examples that you might want to share.

00:23:52:06 - 00:24:17:20
Ashley
Yeah, a great example that I would love to share. So at Kruger Products I manage our household paper category. So bathroom tissue, paper towel, facial tissue and how consumers use our product. There's a universal truth that you're using bathroom tissue, paper towel, facial tissue, I think again there's a human truth and usage occasion truth across many generations and countries that when consumers are using our product, it's in these raw moments.

00:24:17:20 - 00:24:38:13
Ashley
It's in these vulnerable moments when you're using facial tissue. And we launched a campaign called Unapologetically Human, where we featured all of these moments of where consumers are using our product. And I think that advertising spot works well across any multicultural marketing, mainstream, if you want to call it that. But the one thing that we did was really understand the audience.

00:24:38:13 - 00:24:58:01
Ashley
So yes, the human usage truth was there and it works across in our advertising. However, understanding the audience. One simple change of what we did was we adopted music that connected with the audience, whether it's using Chinese lyrics, Mandarin lyrics, something that really resonated with the audience on top of that, human truth really, really worked well for us.

00:24:58:06 - 00:25:13:08
Ashley
And again, it's a it's a small thing to really understand the audience that you're serving and connecting with them on that human truth, but also how you resonate with them with something as simple as music really performed well for us. So that was just a quick little story I wanted to share and something very valuable that I took away.

00:25:13:10 - 00:25:16:01
Alison
Thanks, Ashley. And Eva, what what are some examples from Canadian Tire ?

00:25:16:01 - 00:25:43:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that's, I think brands have been on a journey with this for sure. One is understanding to your point, it's not new Canadians. It's a massive pool of people with different needs, states and different experiences and different biases and different everything. So that's the beginning. The other is I think it started with the easy, the easy things, you know, representation in ads and language which different languages and being on different channels.

00:25:43:22 - 00:26:07:09
Eva
And that's sort of marketing hygiene if you will, and was smart to do. And now I think you're seeing the next phase of this, which is Steve, to your point of, figuring out what the brand's role in their experience is. And I will say at Canadian Tire, I'm a little bit spoiled in that our role is a very clear one.

00:26:07:09 - 00:26:35:06
Eva
We we believe we own the seasons in this country. We believe the seasons are relevant for new Canadians. And that is our segue in. So it's a very authentic way to engage with them. It's your first winter. It's your first time learning to skate. It's your first what, it's it's a lot of that. So for us as a brand, it was not a stretch trying to figure out how we could engage with this audience.

00:26:35:08 - 00:27:06:20
Eva
But I will say, for instance, with our bank, which most people don't know, we also own a bank. Our bank decided that their criteria for lending was going to be not as rigorous as what traditional banks were often asking of immigrants. So we ended up creating a credit card program that was more inclusive of new Canadians, because the credit rating expectations were different than what the big banks were asking.

00:27:06:20 - 00:27:24:18
Eva
So that was a way to connect in a way that was authentic to the business that the banks were in. That was helpful for the stage and phase that the new Canadians were experiencing. But once again, tied to the core purpose of what we were doing, which was offering credit cards.

00:27:24:20 - 00:27:25:17
Alison
Great example. Steve?

00:27:25:17 - 00:27:46:23
Steve
Does anyone in the room remember that wonderful Tim Hortons commercial from a few years back on newcomers? Does anyone remember that one? Yeah. Few people. Yeah. The snowman. So, you know, as some of you know, we test thousands of commercials. That commercial was in the top 5% of any commercial that we ever tested. You want to go see a commercial

00:27:46:23 - 00:27:50:20
Steve
that's a tear jerker. Go check it out online.

00:27:50:22 - 00:27:54:04
Alison
And, Steve, what would you attribute that success to?

00:27:54:06 - 00:28:11:04
Steve
Well, emotion. I mean, you know, it triggered emotions. Whether you were a newcomer or not. It triggered emotions and a sense of Canadian pride that that, you know, not many advertising commercials have at their root.

00:28:11:06 - 00:28:46:03
Eva
And I'll say emotion in this space, I think is a bit nerve wracking for brands, because it can come off as optics or as just trying to get a piece of a pie or, you know, trying to be something for everybody. And so that's why I think connecting it back to the role of the brand insulates you a little bit from looking like you're just chasing business opportunities, like you're actually trying to do something that is helpful for that market.

00:28:46:05 - 00:29:04:10
Alison
The other balances with newcomers, they could have gone to a lot of different countries. They chose Canada. So while they want to feel that they've got a home and comfort from where they came from, they also want to feel that they're part of Canada. So that's also a very delicate balance in messaging and how we bring that opportunity to light.

00:29:04:12 - 00:29:12:06
Alison
So Ashley, beyond representation and advertising, how do you think brands can better understand and authentically meet the needs of diverse audiences?

00:29:12:07 - 00:29:34:15
Ashley
Yeah, so I know for us personally at Kruger, we rely very heavily on our multicultural agency partner to help fill in those knowledge gaps. Again, to help bring that insight of how to connect with the audience in an authentic way. And I think Eva brought up a great point. It's really delivering of how you incorporate your product and brand into their everyday life, but ensuring you're delivering on that authenticity, which I think is extremely important.

00:29:34:15 - 00:29:51:18
Ashley
And again, we really heavily rely on our agency partner to help fill in some of these gaps because it's okay not to understand and know everything. So that's that's one thing that we do at Kruger that I think is really helpful to us in focusing on an agency that specializes in that area and really draws insights and helps guide us.

00:29:51:20 - 00:30:12:17
Alison
That's great. So now we're going to tackle the elephant in the room. And the topic that none of us can avoid. So is Gen AI an amazing opportunity for the marketing profession are going to cost us all our jobs? So I'm going to open it up to the panel. Do you see Gen AI more like the metaverse, which ended up being a bit more hype than substance or the internet, which fundamentally changed the world.

00:30:12:20 - 00:30:14:14
Alison
Eva, what would you say?

00:30:14:16 - 00:30:36:05
Eva
Hey, I called the metaverse being more hype than substance back in the day. No, I think Gen AI is seismic, transformative, massive beyond what my simple mind can comprehend. It's not a shiny object. It is a new era that we are embarking on.

00:30:36:07 - 00:30:38:12
Alison
And Ashley, what would you say?

00:30:38:14 - 00:31:05:13
Ashley
I would say that initially the hype was there, against it, very similar to the metaverse. To me, it's a very daunting subject and I do believe that the substance is there, that it will fundamentally change the way marketers exist. However, similar to Eva, I don't even know if I can comprehend those fundamental changes yet. So I do believe that the hype was there, but I also believe that it will fundamentally change the way forward.

00:31:05:15 - 00:31:07:13
Alison
And Steve, your views.

00:31:07:15 - 00:31:26:03
Steve
I can't really add to the two comments made. I would agree. The only point I might make is I'm, it sounds to me how many teams we I'm sure many of you have are engaged both in this country and globally on trying to understand where it fits, where we might train people and what we might do with it next.

00:31:26:03 - 00:31:30:11
Steve
So it's there's an awful lot of activity going on for sure.

00:31:30:13 - 00:31:48:23
Alison
So let's turn to the audience. Raise your hand if you think Gen AI is more like the metaverse? One taker. Or more like the internet? Okay, so Eva, I'd love you to share how your organization is approaching the integration of Gen AI.

00:31:49:01 - 00:32:21:14
Eva
First of all, I don't think I can probably express the early days part of things. I think we're all very much in early days, and so trying to foretell or foresee something this massive is daunting. Having said that, I think waiting and not doing anything is not an option either. So the big quote right now is, you know, will AI replace me and my job? And the answer is it won't replace you and your job.

00:32:21:14 - 00:32:48:17
Eva
But people who understand AI will. And I actually do believe that I think there will be a shake up, no question, that doesn't worry me so much, because I feel like people are resourceful and bright, and we will figure out our role in the AI world. There will be a phase of you can call it disruption, if you're being positive, or you can call it chaos if you're being negative.

00:32:48:19 - 00:33:18:12
Eva
But at the end of the day, I don't believe we're all going to be replaced by AI and no one's going to have a job. And you know, we're all just going to sit on sofas and think thoughts and those things are going to come to being. I do think there is massive opportunity on all levels what that looks like, I'm not sure about, but I do know that it's going to require engaging in AI. At Canadian Tire

00:33:18:12 - 00:33:40:16
Eva
We made a commitment early days, and no one thinks of Canadian Tire in this way, because we're 100 years old and we're a bricks and mortar, largely bricks and mortar chain. But we did. You know, we signed a deal with Microsoft about two years ago where we have a partnership with them on the AI side, we have a team that is dedicated to AI technologies.

00:33:40:18 - 00:34:06:23
Eva
They go around, having the teams isnot the hard part. It's the using that team to educate everyone around them. That's the hard part. So they are constantly doing roadshows and keeping everyone apprized of what's happening in the space. And then we even took it a step further, where our CEO has asked his senior leadership team to include AI technologies in their KPIs, in our scorecards of how we're measured.

00:34:07:01 - 00:34:37:12
Eva  
So the amount of time we spent on ChatGPT, sharing best practices on hat, all that kind of cross-pollinizaation and learning together and seeing it as an opportunity to upscale ourselves and upscale our teams is kind of the approach that we're having. I, I really don't believe at the end of the day that there will be a, there will be an efficiency play, there's no question.

00:34:37:14 - 00:35:05:12
Eva
But I feel like there will be opportunities for people to add value in different ways than they're currently adding value. So I don't think it's going to be a big, you know, let's cut entire departments and entire groups. But I think there will be shifts in what, what and how people work. And if you can be a part of that, I think things are going to be really exciting.

00:35:05:14 - 00:35:16:00
Eva
And if for whatever reason, people choose to like, white knuckle it and pretend this stuff doesn't exist, I think it's going to be a hard fought battle.

00:35:16:01 - 00:35:23:14
Alison
Agreed. So, Ashley, what do you see as some of the early implications for creativity, content creation, and some of the key marketing functions?

00:35:23:16 - 00:35:46:19
Ashley
I think as far as AI think some of the big things that I, I personally like to use at stores ideation, brainstorming, really kind of kicking off, using it as a tool in the marketer's toolkit, just again, to really look at it as not again, replacing jobs or replacing thinking, but really using it as ideation to kick off content creation and stuff like that.

00:35:46:19 - 00:36:05:23
Ashley
So I think, again, it's just another tool that marketers are going to be using. And that's again, personally how I've started implementing it. And we've started implementing it through our marketing department. And again, just getting ourselves familiar with it and to see the longer term impacts that it can have. But just something as simple as an ideation is really the starting point.

00:36:06:01 - 00:36:28:02
Alison
So now we're going to switch gears. Attracting and retaining marketing talent across generations is obviously pivotal to the ongoing success of our profession. So I would like to start with you, Ashley, because you're a terrific example of a talented marketer early in your career, who of all the professions you could have chose upon graduating, chose marketing. So what attracted you to marketing and what would you like to see from the profession moving forward?

00:36:28:04 - 00:36:55:18
Ashley
Yeah, I think what initially attracted me to the marketing profession is just the role that brands can have in the lives of, of humans. I remember watching I think it was The Dove, the Real Beauty campaign, and sitting there with goosebumps and just seeing the work and the impact that these brands can have on young women and again, that was kind of my first introduction to really sitting there saying, wow, this is this is really important and impactful of what brands can do.

00:36:55:20 - 00:37:19:20
Ashley
I think what keeps me there, in the marketing profession is being able to work on campaigns like, that's what Kruger Products. I've been able to work on a campaign called The Cashmere Collection, where it's a funds and awareness raiser for the breast cancer cause. So despite it being bathroom tissue, how we've spun this partnership is that we work with designers across Canada, and they'll build these gorgeous couture gowns out of bathroom tissue.

00:37:19:22 - 00:37:36:07
Ashley
And we have a massive campaign around that and raise funds and awareness for the breast cancer cause. And just seeing the impact that that makes on the lives of Canadians, this is so rewarding. And again, I think that's initially what attracted me into the marketing profession, but it's also what's kept me here again for the past few years.

00:37:36:07 - 00:37:56:06
Ashley
So that's played an important role in what's motivated me. I think as far as what I would like to see within the profession is leaning a little bit more into humanity. I think as we talk about the clutter within the marketing space, what's really resonating with consumers is building that emotional connection. I think that also helps with the long term sustainability of brands.

00:37:56:06 - 00:38:12:02
Ashley
So I would like to see us leaning into a little bit more of humanity. And I think it's important, I think consumers now more than ever, even coming out of that post-Covid world, they see right through. So it's really connecting with them in an emotional way. So bringing more of humanity, I think, into this space is something that motivates me.

00:38:12:02 - 00:38:15:05
Ashley
It's what got me here and something I would like to see more of.

00:38:15:07 - 00:38:39:11
Alison
Well, it's also it builds on the superpower of marketers that we talked about earlier. And it also when you think about one of the things that will differentiate us from gen AI, we will always be able to do humanity better than any machine for sure, no matter how good the technology. So, Steve, I know that your daughter shared some advice to you when it comes to, what do we need to do to make marketing a more appealing long term career path and retain top talent?

00:38:39:13 - 00:39:02:11
Steve
So I think I think that kind of leads in, if you like, to the concept of ageism. And a fact of the matter is, you know, we've always had a talent pipeline inevitability. So unless your organization is growing by double or triple digits, there are limited opportunities, which essentially means that people reach a certain age and then they're out.

00:39:02:13 - 00:39:24:06
Steve
And in some professions, certainly in marketing, most certainly in advertising, but not exclusively in those, you know, that top end is much lower than it used to be. You know, once you hit 50 in marketing and advertising, you know, to some degree you're starting to get out of the game. It's as I said, it's not a new thing, but it probably is more pronounced than it was in the past.

00:39:24:08 - 00:39:48:13
Steve
And I know that my daughter of 34, who's been in marketing for 10 or 12 years now, there are issues that she and I would most certainly disagree on, you know, issues that relate to how to collaborate, how to mentor, how to build business. And ultimately, and this is what Alison's getting at, is ultimately her view would be, Dad, you know, you've got to get out of the way.

00:39:48:15 - 00:39:57:07
Steve
But that would be ultimately, that would be her view. I, and I think there's some truth to that. I do think there's some truth to that.

00:39:57:09 - 00:40:02:17
Alison
So Eva, how would you build on that? What are we going to do to retain top talent and keep them engaged?

00:40:02:19 - 00:40:27:13
Eva
Two things, I would say, continuing to stay relevant and apprized of everything that's happening, the staying curious, continuing to grow, continuing to learn, you know, the digital transformation that's been happening for the last decade and will continue to happen into the future, all that kind of stuff. I think we owe it to ourselves to stay at the forefront of all those things if we want to stay in the game.

00:40:27:15 - 00:40:58:11
Eva
So that's on the one side, and on the other side is truly growing the pie, growing our scope of influence so that we're not staying in one silo. And there's only one way to move up to that next level. And it's by bumping the person who's ahead of you out of it. The broader we are in our ability to speak intelligently on things, be able to take on different responsibilities, the better off the entire industry will be.

00:40:58:13 - 00:41:31:11
Eva
And I, I'm I will say I'm very optimistic on that side of it. For marketers, if I were to bet on a discipline to be able to go broad, it is marketers, partially because of the AI side and the creative thinking, and partially because I do think the way that marketers are brought up, or like come into it, is with the fulsome view to the customer, and that is a different perspective than most people have.

00:41:31:13 - 00:41:57:20
Eva
So I am I'm bullish on it. I think I'll tell you a funny story. When I initially took on ESG, I went to a seminar and I was talking to a guy who was like an expert, and he knew all these things and I knew nothing. And he's like, you know, I'm really happy. And I thought he thought I was a bit of a whatever, because I didn't know all the acronyms and all the regulations and all the whatever.

00:41:57:20 - 00:42:24:16
Eva
It's a very technical business. And he said, I'm really happy to see a marketer heading up ESG for a retailer. And I was like, why? And he said, because, you know, we need the people who convinced people that smoking was healthy to convince people that this is a real issue. And so I think we tend to underestimate our role even in on the IR side.

00:42:24:17 - 00:42:28:03
Eva
Like to say I know very little on the investor

00:42:28:03 - 00:42:29:05
Speaker 2
Relations side

00:42:29:05 - 00:42:51:07
Eva
Is an understatement. But when you read the releases, it's like number after number 2% up, 1.2% down, one of that of this was up. That category was down. The ability to tell a story to the street so that they remember you and what you're trying. These are all skills that we have and that I think are transferable across disciplines.

00:42:51:07 - 00:43:01:02
Eva
And I think at the end of the day, will be the things that make us sought after if we're interested in continuing to learn and grow.

00:43:01:04 - 00:43:20:10
Alison
Great point. And the other thing from a credibility and growing the pie for us as a profession, to get the credit we deserve for the positive impact we have on growing businesses and Canada's GDP is another really powerful way that we can collectively grow the pie. So, Steve, you called out ageism. It is absolutely a reality in our profession.

00:43:20:12 - 00:43:37:21
Alison
And when we did the CMA DEI research last year and we've just come out a field again this year, we found that it's actually a lot younger than we thought. So when you're in your late 40s on the brand side, you're now seen as getting old. Agency it's even worse if you're in your late 30s. That's starting to be seen as old.

00:43:37:21 - 00:43:52:03
Alison
So clearly, for those of us that have passed both of those milestones, that's a little concerning. How do we better leverage the experience of seasoned marketers and address ageism in our industry? Eva, why don't I kick it off with you?

00:43:52:05 - 00:44:25:14
Eva
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot of the stuff I've been saying around staying relevant and up to date and whatever. It does make me laugh that, you know, we have two very aged potential US presidential candidates running for office, and we're talking about people in their 40s and 50s. I also think it's interesting, marketing traditionally has been more of a female-led industry, and ageism is more rampant in it than I would say, no one's talking about

00:44:25:14 - 00:44:47:18
Eva
A 52 year old CFO as being too old. So there's there's things that I think we need to kind of acknowledge and be aware of. But once again, I think staying relevant, learning, growing insulates you as much as you can, and growing the pie and being able and open to move into different disciplines and different parts of the business, all of that.

00:44:47:18 - 00:44:55:15
Eva
I think it's the only way, not just in marketing, but in life, to stay relevant and learning and curious. It's all good.

00:44:55:17 - 00:44:57:03
Alison
Steve, what would you add?

00:44:57:05 - 00:45:21:21
Steve
I'd say two things? The first is, I think that both organizations and individuals need to think about the idea that someone who's 55, for argument's sake, doesn't actually have to be in or out. They could actually be somewhere in the middle. They could be someone that that had a leadership role and took a step back and now plays a different role.

00:45:21:23 - 00:45:37:13
Steve
That would be the first point. The second point, to come back to the conversation with my daughter, would be that I do think there's a difference between being really smart and really experienced. I don't think the two things are the same.

00:45:37:15 - 00:45:41:11
Alison
And Ashley, what would you say from being earlier in your career?

00:45:41:13 - 00:46:01:05
Ashley
Yeah, I think I might be a little naive to say this, but I don't necessarily think it's about age. I think it's about being open-minded and having the right people at the table. Yes, age can offer different viewpoints, but I think as long as people are open again, as Steve mentioned, change and adapting and being agile and again, just having an open mind, I think that's really important.

00:46:01:06 - 00:46:19:01
Alison
Well, that's like any stereotype. There are quote unquote younger people who aren't embracing Gen AI, and then there are quote unquote older people who are actually becoming very well-positioned and very open to change. So you can't stereotype a 30 year old, a 50 year old or a sixty year old. And that's really important for us to certainly remember.

00:46:19:03 - 00:46:31:13
Alison
So before we open it up for questions from the audience, I'd love to close off our discussion by having each of you share one piece of advice that you would give for the marketers that have joined us today. And Ashley I'm going to ask you to kick things off.

00:46:31:19 - 00:46:51:20
Ashley
Yeah, I think my biggest piece of advice is to never stop learning. I think within the marketing professions, we talked about the ever-shifting dynamics and as a new technology. So that's something that as soon as I entered in my career, I wanted to say yes to every opportunity, be in every room that I could be in and really absorb as much as I could at the beginning of my career.

00:46:51:20 - 00:47:02:14
Ashley
But I'm still finding five years later in my career that learning is the biggest opportunity, and to never say no to that and just to keep that in the back of my mind as I progress through my career.

00:47:02:16 - 00:47:05:12
Alison
Great advice. Eva, what would you say?

00:47:05:14 - 00:47:28:23
Eva
Really, the same thing. I think learning is the key. Staying at the table. There will be times in your career where I think you're not that excited at where your boss is terrible, or your job is terrible, or the company's struggling or whatever. I think my advice would be find ways to stay at the table. It will not look the same always.

00:47:29:00 - 00:48:00:06
Eva
And it doesn't mean you need to lean in with your heart and soul every day of every year. But just stay, figure it out, and then constantly be looking for ways to change and morph and, move yourself forward. I think that's been the biggest thing. And  also, PSA, especially for women, I find there are times in female careers in particular where it gets really hard and pulling out starts feeling like that might be the best play.

00:48:00:08 - 00:48:09:11
Eva
Find a way, even if it's in a reduced capacity or different capacity, to always have a foot in the door. At the very least.

00:48:09:12 - 00:48:33:09
Alison
That's great advice. No matter how much we love our profession and career, there will be days and sometimes weeks or months where it really kind of stinks. I will say, looking back on it, the worst boss I ever had was probably the boss I learned the most from, because I knew exactly what I did not want to do, and the hard situations and finding a way through them that you're building resilience and you're adapting to change and you're adapting to adversity.

00:48:33:09 - 00:48:38:22
Alison
And those are mission critical skills from a marketer's perspective. Steve, how would you close it out?

00:48:39:00 - 00:49:18:20
Steve
I would say that to the extent that you can, be a student of history, because the past, to varying degrees, is a reasonably good predictor of the future. And so, I don't know, 35 years from today, what we'll be saying about AI and the impact that it may or may not have had in 2023 and 24? But what I would say to you, and I'm going to use a prop for this, is if I go back 35 years, who would have known what impact this would have had when I bought it 35 years ago?

00:49:18:22 - 00:49:27:15
Steve
You know, for all of those of you in the room today who have iPhone fifteens, here's where it started. I still have it. I don't use it today, but I still have it.

00:49:27:15 - 00:49:33:20
Alison
I remember how revolutionary that was when it came out too, right? It's actually, Ashley  is looking at us all...

00:49:33:20 - 00:49:38:15
Ashley
I was gonna say, I've never seen that

00:49:38:17 - 00:49:39:19
Ashley
There's some weight behind that.

00:49:39:20 - 00:49:41:07
Steve
Yeah. You should see

00:49:41:07 - 00:49:44:13
Steve
The device that charges it. That's three times bigger.

00:49:44:13 - 00:49:47:00
Eva
Remember the scene on Wall Street.

00:49:47:00 - 00:49:48:02
Eva
Where he's on 

00:49:48:02 - 00:49:50:23
Eva
The beach and he's on the phone. It was like my plan.

00:49:51:01 - 00:49:58:08
Steve
I've actually kept every single cell phone that I've had, and there's like 16 of them over the years.

00:49:58:10 - 00:50:13:23
Alison
Wow. I wonder what the value of that collection is. You might want to look into that. So on that note, we're now going to open it up to the audience for questions. For those that are joining us virtually, they can call in their questions as well. And then for those that are here in person, Lynn has a mic ready to go.

00:50:14:01 - 00:50:32:14
Presenter
Hi, my name is Muhammad. First of all, thanks a lot for the insights. So my question is basically as we sit here, you know, the all the marketers here, we are at the forefront of the organizations. Right. So it's about the hype versus reality. Every now and then we see the hype coming about market trend coming about.

00:50:32:16 - 00:50:51:16
Presenter
It could be EV, it could be crypto, it could be AI to, you know, metadata whatnot. So as organizations and those who are in the forefront should be really invest and gain the first mover advantage, or should we sit back and wait for what market has to offer. So this is something that I would like to really get your idea about.

00:50:51:16 - 00:50:52:01
Presenter
Thanks.
 
00:50:52:05 - 00:50:54:09
Alison
Eva, do you want to kick it off? 

00:50:54:11 - 00:51:15:04
Eva
I'll take that. Not the answer you're going to want to hear, but it depends. It depends on your core business and what it matters. How it affects your business. Early adopters. It tends to be expensive. It tends to have a lot of mistakes, a lot of false starts. Not everybody has the stomach for that. And you can't do that in everything.

00:51:15:06 - 00:51:38:03
Eva
You really can't. And if you're big enough, you can often wait for the little guys to hammer out the things and then just catch up to them really fast because you have deeper pockets. So it depends on what it is. Just because you mentioned EV, for instance, Canadian Tire obviously has a massive automotive business, a massive product business and a service business.

00:51:38:05 - 00:52:02:01
Eva
We can't afford to catch up in the EV space. It's too much of our business. So we are investing heavily and some of that money will be misspent. And we know that it will be because it's early days. But that is something that is core to our business. There are other things that wie'l wait for others to flesh it out, and then we'll get on the train.

00:52:02:03 - 00:52:04:01
Eva
So I think it just kind of depends.

00:52:04:03 - 00:52:27:10
Steve
So, sounds like a self-serving comment, but it's not. If I think back about with regard to the things that the we do in the world in the past, almost all of them would have been about the present. You know, a product, an advertising campaign, a customer satisfaction related issue. I'd say a third of what we do today is about context.

00:52:27:12 - 00:52:37:04
Steve
And I'd suggest to you that businesses that really understand the context within which they live are much better equipped to make decisions about whether they should take a risk or not.

00:52:37:06 - 00:52:39:15
Alison
Great point. Next question, Peter.

00:52:39:17 - 00:53:02:08
Steve
Thank you. Peter Rodriguez. Brand Igniter. How do we accelerate the adoption of Gen AI to create value in not only to save costs? How do we make it as second nature to us as marketers, instead of fearing it? How do we make it more a regular part of our lives? I'd love to know. What advice would you have for us?

00:53:02:08 - 00:53:02:18
Steve
Thank you very much.

00:53:02:18 - 00:53:24:12
Eva
Much. I mean, I, I feel bad because I'm part of a massive organization that has teams that do these things, and they come to your office and they sit with you and they tell you, you should be looking at this, and why don't you try that? I realize most people don't have that. I would say it's on us to start using the tools that we know about.

00:53:24:15 - 00:53:57:04
Eva
So certainly ChatGPT. Everyone, my daughter is   in university and they all use it to write their LinkedIn profiles. So it's like finding ways that you can be familiar with the parts of AI that are out there and figuring out how to massage them, how you put the parameters. Our HR department, for instance, has started doing job descriptions through AI, and they put in the specs and the guardrails, and it takes a while to figure out how to really use it effectively.

00:53:57:04 - 00:54:24:01
Eva
But you need to largely, I would say small and medium sized businesses and individuals, need to kind of take the onus on themselves to get themselves at seminars or at places where people who understand the space are talking about it and be reading, be curious, be on it, maybe find people who are closer to that industry and connect with them organically.

00:54:24:03 - 00:54:46:02
Eva
All the Microsofts and the IBM's and now Google's. Like, if you have contacts in those spheres, those are good people to tap on the shoulder and just have conversations with about the space. But it's I mean, it's so massive, like we have people dedicated to it, so it's hard to do it off the side of the corner of your desk.

00:54:46:02 - 00:54:53:09
Eva
On top of that, 89,000 other things you're doing. But to the extent that you can, I think it's worth it.

00:54:53:11 - 00:55:12:08
Ashley
And I think just to Eva's point, I think it's about just getting comfortable with it, like acknowledging that this isn't going anywhere. The onus is on you to adopt to this new technology. So that's one thing that I'm really trying to adapt my mindset to is really being comfortable with it. And then when it does become a fundamental part, being confident in how that will be implemented.

00:55:12:10 - 00:55:39:05
Eva
And the other thing I would say is know that no one really knows. And I find that like, there might be, you know, a handful of experts, but this is early, early in the race. There really aren't that many people that are light years ahead of what the average Joe is in the space. I think once it starts really going kind of mainstream, it will just accelerate exponentially.

00:55:39:07 - 00:56:00:10
Alison
And representing a much smaller organization, there are a lot of tools out there that are actually very cost effective to use, so you don't have to be spending hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars to access the tools, and then just start experimenting and playing. We've done a lot of piloting at the CMA, in part to help understand and future-proof the profession and part to enable our team as well.

00:56:00:16 - 00:56:22:02
Alison
And it's much more accessible and affordable than you might realize. I also think from an SME perspective, which is 80% of county's economy, when you understand some of the efficiency plays, not just marketing related, but more broadly business related, it can be a really powerful leveller and make us much more competitive with much bigger organizations as well.

00:56:22:04 - 00:56:22:21
Alison
Next question.

00:56:23:02 - 00:56:41:10
Speaker 6
Hello Derek from Guideline SMI. Thanks for sharing your perspectives this morning. So this question is more for Eva and Ashley. I was just wondering if you could share kind of the role of the agency, whether that's media buying, planning and creative in-house, external in your two organizations. And then for the three of you if you choose to answer

00:56:41:10 - 00:56:47:13
Speaker 6
the second part is just wondering how you see that evolving over the next 3 to 5 years, the role of the agency.

00:56:47:19 - 00:57:13:16
Ashley
Yeah, I can kick it off. So at Kruger Products we have a very lean marketing department. So we do rely very heavily on our agency partners. We have a creative agency, we have a media agency. We have a multicultural marketing agency. We have sponsorship agency. So we're really robust in leaning on our agency partners. I think moving forward, again, it's it's taking advantage of those organizations that specialize in these areas.

00:57:13:16 - 00:57:22:20
Ashley
I think it's okay not to know everything and really lean on people who do specialize in those areas. So I do see that being the trend moving forward is heavily relying on agency partners.

00:57:22:20 - 00:57:44:11
Eva
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think we take our agency relationships very seriously. We've had the same partners for long periods of time, and we have hybrids. We have, you know, a media agency that does some of our buying, but we do some of it internally. We do some of our creative internally, we do some of our creative with agencies, sort of a combination.

00:57:44:11 - 00:58:18:00
Eva
I'd say we have a hybrid model, but the need for agencies I don't see going away anytime soon. I think the type of work, the type of thinking, having an external perspective is invaluable. I think brands can get into trouble if they only talk to themselves all the time, and our agencies tend to hold us accountable on stuff in terms of things that you can say, things where you're just kind of talking to yourself, all that sort of stuff.

00:58:18:02 - 00:58:46:01
Eva
So I think that continues on and will continue on. I will say, as someone who's been in the field forever, the days of, you know, really temperamental, diva-like, creative from agencies, I think there's been a lot of push back on that side of things. And I think agencies have been really good at evolving and pivoting and growing past that.

00:58:46:01 - 00:59:19:10
Eva
So there's been adoption and change on both sides. Sometimes I miss the diva-esque days because you did get great creative. There's a lot of carnage in the wake and whatever, but creative genius and creative like really compelling creative. You don't come across that as often as sometimes I think it would be nice to come across. So it's a tough one because in some ways I feel like we've sucked that out of them, and then we judge them for not having it.

00:59:19:12 - 00:59:22:03
Eva
so I think it's finding the happy balance.

00:59:22:05 - 00:59:25:12
Alison
So, Steve, you can clearly have some thoughts to share too.

00:59:25:14 - 00:59:54:20
Steve
And notwithstanding the the Kruger and Canadian Tire view of the world, I think first of all, that agencies have ceded some of what they used to have to the advent of influencers and the explosion of creators. That would be my first point. The second point is a little sad, in the sense that I think the agency model is, I don't know if it's broken, but it needs repair.

00:59:54:20 - 01:00:19:18
Steve
And if, if, if you if you ever want to read a great book on this, it's not about the world of creative. It's about the world of managing advertising businesses. Because they have to do that. They have to manage businesses. The book is called Madison Avenue Manslaughter, and it's by a guy called Michael Farmer. It's a it's a short read, but well worth it.

01:00:19:19 - 01:00:22:01
Steve
He's a finance guy. That's right.

01:00:22:03 - 01:00:23:03
Alison
Next question.

01:00:23:05 - 01:00:44:14
Speaker 7
Hey, thank you so much for the time spent over here. Really insightful. I'm a new person in Canada who's 13th month going right now. So I've seen the country from a different light coming over here after 44 years of my life. A 43, actually. My birthday is this weekend, so, when we came over here, it looked very different.

01:00:44:14 - 01:01:06:19
Speaker 7  
Obviously it is different. The entire neighborhood concept of living, each and every market is nearby. So it was difficult for me to understand how businesses operate over here to start with. And, you know, understanding few data points, like 80% is SME. And you talked about price differentiation is not a differentiation anymore. And reason for that is product differentiation doesn't exist.

01:01:06:21 - 01:01:33:12
Speaker 7
Now, in my view, this is that Canada as a market is not a volume based market. It is a value based market. There is there is no MRP, there's no maximum retail price. So people operate, offer same product at different price points and play a distribution game. And therefore people don't push for differentiation in this country. But a lot of differentiation product line happens outside and we are seeing innovation happening more outside in Canada.

01:01:33:14 - 01:01:35:17
Speaker 7
So your view on that.

01:01:35:18 - 01:02:12:18
Eva
I don't know that there's an outside and an inside anymore. I feel like I can literally know the price of a barbecue at a retailer in China in two minutes, less than two minutes. So I feel in that way it's a great equalizer and that you know what is happening around the world and it's very transparent. It does cost different amounts to operate in different countries, however, and we do know that Canada is a more expensive country to operate in, both from a distribution perspective, from a labour perspective, from a bunch of other perspectives.

01:02:12:20 - 01:02:39:00
Eva
So you do have different price structures in this country than you do in other countries. You also have brands that are independent, like Canadian brands competing with Goliaths, who are international brands, like going up against Walmart and Amazon is not for the faint of heart. It's very hard to do that as a Canadian company. So you see all of that come together.

01:02:39:02 - 01:03:03:21
Eva
And what is our product assortment and our pricing strategy? I don't think it's an inherent mentality difference. I think it's a cost of doing business in this country difference. And that's why you saw so many American retailers struggle here. Certainly from a bricks and mortar perspective, it just wasn't worth the effort for them. I don't know, which is a terrible thing to say, bu...

Alison
Next question.

01:03:03:23 - 01:03:31:12 
Speaker 8
Once again, thank you so much for sharing your insights. As a newcomer, when I came to Canada, like three years ago, I realized that, you know, there was so many strong brands that I wasn't exposed to when I was outside of Canada. So as marketers, do we feel like we are really doing a lot to, to expose our brands outside of Canada?

01:03:31:14 - 01:03:53:02
Speaker 8
Because I'm trying to think if you think of other countries, there are lots of brands that are operating here. But when you think of Canada, if you are out there, you can actually name a few brands that you see when you travel outside Canada. Thank you.

01:03:53:04 - 01:04:17:14
Eva
Yeah, I mean, Canadian Tire, believe it or not, back in the day and Adrian's in the audience a long time ago did try and expand into the U.S. And there are a lot of Canadian brands that try and go into the U.S. The U.S. in particular, seems to be where most Canadian brands start when they expand. Tim Hortons has had on and off again, and I believe currently is expanded into the US.

01:04:17:16 - 01:04:40:17
Eva
It's not for because I think we don't have a comparable product or that we couldn't to offer the same service or any of that. I think we're very competitive that way. I think it's just super expensive to go into the United States. And I think the competition is fierce, and I think you need to have the stomach for it.

01:04:40:17 - 01:05:19:15
Eva
And I think a lot of Canadian companies have figured out this country, have the infrastructure in place in this country have gotten to a point where the profitability is at a place that they're comfortable with, and shaking that up to take on a beast that is exporting into the U.S. is not in everyone's appetite. I will say on the e-commerce side, the pure play side, the the things where you don't require as much infrastructure investment, you see a lot of Canadians going after international markets and thriving.

01:05:19:17 - 01:05:32:23
Eva
So I think it just depends on the type of business and how much investment versus reaping profits and money you want  to sign yourself up for as a CEO.

01:05:33:01 - 01:06:02:15
Steve
Yeah, I would add to that by reiterating a point that came up earlier. One is that it's about risk tolerance and opportunity and great example I can think of from not so long ago was being at a bank  presentation. We were at a bank and we were talking about newcomers and someone in the audience asked the question of themselves, not of us, about what they were doing with regard to newcomers.

01:06:02:15 - 01:06:27:10
Steve
And one of the marketers made the point that there was a lot of collateral that they developed. And the question then was, is there someone else? Is there another bank that's doing something different? And the answer was, yes, there is. Another bank had opened a branch in Beijing, in the embassy. You tell me which one is a bigger commitment to newcomers and a bigger risk in the process.

01:06:27:12 - 01:06:37:04
Steve
So there's a spectrum. I think, of how marketers approach this stuff, and it's very much related to risk tolerance and opportunity.

01:06:37:06 - 01:06:54:16
Alison
Great example. I think we have time for one more question. 

Speaker 9
Hi. I'm Thrity and I think when you pulled out that cordless phone, I was actually a part of the whole transition. I've seen my dad using that, and I see how I have technically like transformed him to an iPhone now.

01:06:54:18 - 01:06:56:00
Speaker 9
So my question.

01:06:56:00 - 01:07:07:07
Speaker 9
Is how marketers can use consumer data and insight to inform the development of emotional, compelling campaigns with the power of AI generation. Like how you mentioned it before.

01:07:07:08 - 01:07:24:10
Eva
Yeah. I mean, the use of data right now, I think is what everyone is going to be living and dying by. And that amount of first party data you have that you can access is going to be the key to all of this, because of all of the regulations that are about to start happening and all that kind of stuff.

01:07:24:12 - 01:07:59:07
Eva
But if I were to put my market - s  o that's the functional side. But my marketing hat says to the extent that we offer people value for that relationship, where they are getting something out of the fact that we know more about them and that we can make them more targeted offers that are relevant for them, and we can give them experiences that make their life better for them, that are easier, etc. that's a value exchange that I think customers would sign up for because they're getting something out of that.

01:07:59:09 - 01:08:25:13
Eva
I think the minute it becomes about having data for our own ability to extend our reach, just because we want you to know random stuff in the hopes that something sticks because we know you're not watching television anymore. I think that's where customers are getting really savvy and will have very little patience and tolerance for it going forward.

01:08:25:15 - 01:08:46:21
Eva
So I think it's really on us to make sure that the data and the information that we have is being used in a way to create value for customers, so they will want to keep the relationship going, because without that, we're just going to be noise and we're just going to irritate people. And it could go either way right now.

01:08:46:21 - 01:08:50:19
Eva
It really depends. I think we need to really hold ourselves accountable for that.

01:08:50:21 - 01:09:14:23
Alison
And building on what Eva said, we did some research with Canadian consumers that at the beginning of the year to understand what they think from a privacy perspective, and 75% of Canadians are comfortable sharing their data with brands provided there is value in that. So you're absolutely right, when it comes down to the value equation, and in today's economy, the number one thing they're looking for is some sort of price discount, special offer.

01:09:15:01 - 01:09:34:16
Alison
but beyond that they're also open. And the other thing they want is, it has to be a brand they trust, and they have to have control so that they can opt out easily at any point in time. But they are absolutely open to sharing their data, provided they're getting something tangible and quantifiable back from the brand in the market, or that they're sharing data with.

01:09:34:18 - 01:09:37:07
Alison
So we have one last question.

01:09:37:09 - 01:10:12:21
Speaker 10 
Hi, my name is Mitch. I just have a question. It's a little bit broad there, but as you notice that with new technology, the biggest challenge, especially that we don't talk about is actually data privacy and protection of data. So, you know, with ChatGPT being, publicly stating that they do collect your data, and as a majority of marketers now use ChatGPT, how can we be very vigilant of how our data is being used and especially with like what we're putting in, because let's be honest, like not, we're not we're not monitoring everyone what they're using and inputting.

01:10:12:23 - 01:10:24:12
Speaker 10
What have you noticed especially and what are you what have you guys been doing in your brand to prevent from any privacy being breached? And I think that's the problem we all face in our generation now.

01:10:24:16 - 01:10:53:23
Eva
Massive, massive, massive issue. Once again, we have the luxury of being a big organization. We have things that are policed. Only certain people can access certain things. We have our own version of ChatGPT that we call chat ChatCT, because we wanted to control the information that our employees were having access to, and we didn't want people to be able to see what we were accessing on it.

01:10:54:01 - 01:11:30:03
Eva
So privacy is massive. I think, I can't begin to guess how much more of an issue it's going to be. When we talked initially about AI and I was giving my optimistic work force view to AI, because I ultimately do think that's going to be okay. The area that I am less sure about is when it comes to privacy, when it comes to political things, when it comes to wars and big government and all that kind of stuff.

01:11:30:05 - 01:11:58:01
Eva
That stuff terrifies me. I think there will be a massive amount of information and very few people's hands who will be able to see a lot of things, and where that nets us out, I'm not sure about. So yes, I would say to that extent that you can have privacy departments and measures and your organizations and measures in your life

01:11:58:01 - 01:12:22:22
Eva
personally, I think that behooves all of us. And then just for us to be vocal global citizens as to what we're willing to tolerate and what we're not willing to tolerate as this technology progresses. And if you think of like, social media, people weren't really paying attention. And then before you know it, your kid's on his phone for 12 hours a day and you're like, oh my God, this is a problem.

01:12:23:00 - 01:12:29:02
Eva
We can't afford to let that happen with AI. We have a personal responsibility.

01:12:29:04 - 01:12:53:01
Steve
You know, which profession is going to benefit the most from AI in the short term? Now, which profession? That's right. The legal guys are going to go nuts with this. We're going to see whole practices in the legal world spawn. On the scary side, I agree with Eva, but I would if you haven't seen this example, I would draw your attention to it.

01:12:53:03 - 01:13:11:22
Steve
It's Reid Hoffman, has anyone see Reid Hoffman's interview with his digital twin? If you haven't seen it, go check it out. Reid Hoffman of LinkedIn does an interview with his digital twin. Have you seen it? Yeah. Is it not amazing? It's terrifying. That's right. There you go. 

01:13:11:22 - 01:13:30:20
Alison
Great.  So I want to say a huge thank you to Steve and Ashley for a really great conversation. I also love the level of engagement from our audience today. We have officially now kicked off our inaugural CMA Marketing Week. It's the first day of a very busy week. Tomorrow is our Gen AI Day. We have offered up four different training sessions.

01:13:31:01 - 01:13:48:12
Alison
Two of them are for free and for members only. I'm sorry to say, they're completely sold out. We have two others with a few spaces left, though, and then we're going to wrap the day tomorrow with a Gen AI panel, led by some of our senior members that have a deep specialization in this, and I think there's a few seats left for that as well.

01:13:48:14 - 01:14:12:00
Alison
On Wednesday, we have our CMA Future Proof Signature event. It's an afternoon event followed by some networking, and so we'll be able to learn a lot during the afternoon. And then come together and raise a toast to the profession that we all love. And then on Thursday, we have our Thought Leadership Day. And we've got two great panels, one around future Canadian consumers and one around Women in Sports

01:14:12:00 - 01:14:35:12
Alison
and the amazing opportunity that that represents for marketers and brands moving forward. So very much looking forward to a jam-packed week. I think we have close to 2000 people that have registered for a series of the event. So looking forward to seeing a lot of you at our future events as well. And thanks again to Eva, Steve and Ashley for a great conversation.

01:14:35:13 - 01:14:48:05
Presenter
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to visit the CMA.ca and sign up for your free my CMA account. It's a great way to stay connected and benefit from the latest marketing, thought leadership, news, and industry trends.