Apr 22, 2025
Where do you stand on Trump and the tariffs? CMA CEO Alison Simpson welcomes Gregory Jack, SVP of Public Affairs, Strategic Communication & Market Research, and Naumi Haque, SVP of Research – Market Strategy & Understanding, both from Ipsos. Their timely discussion highlights an Ipsos member survey quantifying Canadians’ sentiments about today’s economic and political climate. Learn how Canadians unite to defend the country’s economy and sovereignty and discover how you can stand with your fellow Canadians.
00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:21
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry
experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that
will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while
also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO
Alison Simpson.
00:00:22:23 - 00:00:58:00
Alison
We are certainly living in interesting times with tariffs and the
51st state nonsense creating uncertainty, we're seeing Canadians
come together to defend our economy and also our sovereignty. In
today's episode, we are sharing new research that quantifies how
Canadians are reacting to Trump, tariffs and the turmoil that
they're both creating. The ongoing study by CMA member Ipsos is
tracking Canadians' sentiment and how it's quickly evolving on many
key measures, including buying Canadian and how Canadian consumers
are balancing their desire to support local brands with concerns
about rising costs and affordability.
00:00:58:01 - 00:01:24:21
Alison
Joining me today are Naumi Haque, Senior Vice President of Market
Strategy and Understanding, and Greg Jack, Senior Vice President of
Public Affairs, Strategic Communication Market Research, both from
Ipsos. Naumi is an Insights Leader with over two decades of
experience in the research and advisory industries across several
great companies, including Google. In his current role, Naumi is
managing customer research projects for companies in a variety of
sectors including retail, cannabis and tech.
00:01:24:23 - 00:01:45:07
Alison
He was at the forefront of global research that tracked the impact
of Covid 19 on citizens and consumers, and is now leading a
tracking study on how Canadians are responding to Trump and
tariffs. Greg leads the Ottawa Public Affairs practice for Ipsos.
He's also a Boomerang member of their team, having first worked
there as a VP in their Calgary office in 2019 to 2023.
00:01:45:08 - 00:02:06:05
Alison
Greg's held a variety of roles in the federal government and also
worked for Suncor and the Government of Alberta early in his
career. He brings extensive experience in both market research and
helping brands and governments get their message out. Today, Greg,
Naomi and I are digging into the research findings to discuss the
impact that the economic and political uncertainty are having on
Canadians.
00:02:06:07 - 00:02:27:02
Alison
We'll discuss intriguing generational differences and also how
Canadian consumers' attitudes towards US-based companies that are
operating in Canada are changing. We'll highlight the opportunities
and challenges that the rise of Canadian patriotism and the
shifting sentiment and marketplace can represent for marketers.
Welcome, Greg and Naumi, it's a pleasure to have you both with us
today.
00:02:27:04 - 00:02:27:21
Gregory
Thank you.
00:02:27:23 - 00:02:29:08
Naumi
Thanks for having us.
00:02:29:10 - 00:02:39:15
Alison
So Naumi, I'd love you to kick things off. How has the "Buy
Canadian" sentiment evolved since the start of the US Canada trade
tensions? And what implications does this have for marketers?
00:02:39:17 - 00:03:03:07
Naumi
For sure. I mean, it's been, it's been a crazy month. So there's
definitely the "Buy Canadian sentiment", is going strong. There's
actually, you know, we see two things happening, right? There's
patriotic purchasing, so people trying to buy Canadian or avoid
American. And there's another shift happening with consumers, which
is that we see just general conservatism. People are pulling back a
little bit on spending because of all the uncertainty that's
happening around the tariffs and the impact on prices.
00:03:03:08 - 00:03:23:13
Naumi
So in terms of how it's evolving, we're definitely seeing the
sentiment grow. So it's not just Buy Canadian, it's avoid American.
And right now we're looking at the two thirds of Canadians that say
they're making an effort to buy Canadian. And that's gone up from
just over half of Canadians about a month ago. And on the
boycotting American side, we're also seeing growth in that
number.
00:03:23:14 - 00:03:46:07
Naumi
So it's 58% of Canadians, right now are saying they're avoiding
American products. And that's up from 47% a month ago. And then
there's also, you know, about a third of Canadians that are
stopping traveling from the US. So there's just right now a lot of,
I think, angst with Canadians in terms of the US. And then there's
the other part that I mentioned, the sort of being a little bit
more conservative.
00:03:46:09 - 00:04:16:18
Naumi
We see Canadians generally pulling back on spending. So about a
third of them right now are telling us that in the past, two weeks,
they've pulled back on spending or more tightly budgeted their
money because of everything that's happening with tariffs and
uncertainty. So it's definitely, you know, a strong sentiment
amongst Canadians. It's growing. And I think the implication for
marketers is there's there's obviously a risk if you're an American
company, there's an opportunity if you're a Canadian company and
can sort of communicate your Canadian credentials.
00:04:16:20 - 00:04:39:02
Naumi
And then there's also this focus on value. But to to capture some
of those people that are pulling back on spending. But ultimately,
the bottom line I think for marketers is that, you know, like I
said, the last month had been crazy. It's been crazy for us as
market researchers, but it's been crazy for consumers. And the most
important thing to remember is that right now, all of those brand
decisions that consumers are making, they're they're sort of up in
the air, right.
00:04:39:03 - 00:04:59:20
Naumi
Like we we as marketers, we spend a lot of time thinking about, oh,
how do we how do we break through? Right. How do we get our message
to resonate with Canadians? And, you know, in some categories we
see that it's really tough to break through. Right. Like in CPG
categories, it can be 60, 70% of people are on autopilot. Well,
right now that inertia around brands is broken.
00:05:00:00 - 00:05:07:03
Naumi
And so it's an opportunity. And I mean, we're expecting to be very
busy as market researchers in the next little bit. Let's put it
that way.
00:05:07:05 - 00:05:18:04
Alison
It's amazing. And it's moving at such warp speed. It's incredible.
I'd love to hear if you're seeing any regional differences, because
typically in Canada we would see regional differences. But I don't
know that that's applying in the situation.
00:05:18:06 - 00:05:37:09
Naumi
I mean, the sentiment is across the country, but we definitely do
see regional differences. What's interesting is, you know, even in
places where do you think, oh, well, you know, them a little bit
holding back like in Quebec. Right. It's even people in Quebec now
rallying around Canada and sort of that national pride. So it
really is coast to coast.
00:05:37:11 - 00:05:54:06
Gregory
You know, I think Naumi really hit the nail on the head in. What
we're seeing in Quebec is fascinating because all of a sudden,
Québecers are rallying around the Canadian flag, and we are seeing
that in some of the voting intentions during the federal election
in our polls. And we're also seeing it anecdotally in stories that
you see in the media and in our numbers.
00:05:54:08 - 00:06:06:02
Gregory
The real difference, as we're going to discuss, I think, is not
regional but generational. But Canadians from coast to coast have
really signed up to this Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement that
we're seeing emerging.
00:06:06:04 - 00:06:18:14
Alison
That's a great shout out, Greg, and I'd love you to drill down on
that and really help our listeners understand the generational
differences that we are seeing based on the current economic
situation and how this is also impacting marketing strategies.
00:06:18:16 - 00:06:40:01
Gregory
Right. And Naomi and I wrote a while ago paper called "Nuanced
Nationalism", and the paper talked about how the nationalist
movement or the Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement has
significant generational differences. And what we're finding is
that it's the Baby Boomers who are leading the charge here. Younger
Canadians are more likely to put price over patriotism. Now, that's
not to say that younger Canadians aren't behind this.
00:06:40:01 - 00:06:58:15
Gregory
They are. And these numbers are, are still showing majorities in
most groups. All age groups, in fact, have been saying that they've
been changing their behaviour and they've been paying attention.
But there are some generational differences. Right now, for
example, 66% of Baby Boomers say that we can never again trust the
Americans the same way. And that's just 45% of Gen Z.
00:06:58:17 - 00:07:15:00
Gregory
We see 80% of Boomers saying that despite the current dispute with
the U.S. is going to bring Canadians together, which we've been
saying it's been doing, j ust 63% of Gen Z are saying that.
And so these are these are, you know, big differences that do
suggest there's there's some nuanced nationalism happening. And we
see this in purchasing, too.
00:07:15:01 - 00:07:45:19
Gregory
While 7 in 10 Canadians say that we should stand up to Trump with
retaliatory tariffs, even if that means Canadians have to pay more,
that number goes up to eight in ten among Boomers, and it's just
five in ten among Gen Z. So Naumi alluded earlier to how Canadians
are pulling back their spending. And really the group that is most
affected by this, who may have the most to lose and not be able to
afford to buy something that's more expensive or change their
travel plans, are the younger group and the Boomers, on the other
hand, who have and continue to have a lot of wealth in Canada are
the ones
00:07:45:19 - 00:07:56:07
Gregory
who are able to put their money where their mouth is and change
their behaviour to send a signal to the Americans, and also to
potentially, affect the American economy and goods.
00:07:56:08 - 00:08:10:19
Alison
Greg, in addition to the financial reality for younger Canadians,
are you seeing other contributing factors to why they're not as
supportive of Buy Canadian or as against, what's going on from an
American perspective?
00:08:10:21 - 00:08:31:21
Gregory
Yeah, I think that some of the, the attachment to Canada and the,
the unity question comes into play here. We see lower attachment
among Gen Z'ers to Canada. And there's a variety of reasons that
could be behind that. They're more likely to be new Canadians. And
so they don't have the shared history. They haven't necessarily
been through the ups and downs of the markets and Canada-U.S.
relations that the Baby Boomers remember.
00:08:31:23 - 00:09:02:11
Gregory
And, you know, you think back to the 70s and the 80s and how all of
that might have changed. And of course, Baby Boomers, as I pointed
out, have really benefited from the Old World Order, the old Canada
that we've all enjoyed. And so for them, they just want to preserve
the status quo. For younger Canadians, they feel that the status
quo is broken and they want to rebuild the institutions that they
don't feel have been working for them as coming up to now and, and
find that this might be an opportunity to do that, or at the very
least, they don't have the same level of attachment to Canada that
their older parents and
00:09:02:11 - 00:09:03:20
Gregory
grandparents might have.
00:09:03:22 - 00:09:27:03
Naumi
And I can add to that, too. I think there's also a lot of
attachment with young people to America, American brands, they, you
know, they've grown up consuming American media, American social
media, and a lot of the brands that are present in Canada right now
are American brands. And so they've grown up with that. So there's
also that sort of like Greg was saying, less of an attachment to
Canada, maybe, but, you know, for some of them, more of an
attachment to, to the U.S. as well.
00:09:27:05 - 00:09:40:17
Alison
And building on that, with the rise of TikTok and brands outside of
North America, are we seeing younger Canadians with a more global
perspective, or is it still gravitating more towards the U.S. than
other countries?
00:09:40:18 - 00:09:58:22
Naumi
It's a it's an interesting question. We did some generational
research last year, and one of the hypotheses that we had that we
wanted to test was, Gen Z are potentially the first truly global
generation, because they've had access to, like you said, all the
social media. And so are they the first generation that globally,
you know, has a shared worldview?
00:09:59:02 - 00:10:17:19
Naumi
And so there is some evidence to that, it's really tough to, to, to
sort of measure that we you know, we did do a study in about 15
different countries to try to get at it and see, you know, what are
the commonalities that they have. And it's it's interesting, like a
lot of the the differences that you'd expect it to be attributed to
age were not.
00:10:17:19 - 00:10:41:07
Naumi
And young people are sort of, you know, it really depends if you're
left or right or sort of, where where you come from also plays a
little bit of a difference. The one thing that we saw that they
were truly sort of connected on was a shared sentiment and
frustration, which is interesting. It's, you know, it's they are
the truly first global generation in that they are all feeling that
maybe they're worse off than previous generations.
00:10:41:07 - 00:10:57:12
Naumi
They're all feeling a little bit more frustrated with the world
right now. If you look at some of the emotions that they project,
they're all, you know, a little bit more likely to be, to be
frustrated, to be disengaged. And so there's there is that that we
see happening. I don't know if it's as a result of social
media.
00:10:57:13 - 00:11:02:18
Naumi
There's still sort of a lot of open questions there. Definitely a
hypothesis that we're testing. And I think there is some truth to
it.
00:11:03:00 - 00:11:20:16
Gregory
And I just want to add to that, Naumi and I and some of our
colleagues last week did a webinar called "From the Pandemic to the
Present", and we looked at some of these measures through the lens
of generation and attachment. One of the most interesting questions
that we talked about in that webinar was where people see their
chances of success coming from.
00:11:20:18 - 00:11:40:07
Gregory
We offered them an option. You know, people's chances of success
and their country depend mostly on their own merit or efforts,
versus people's chances of success in their country depend mostly
on factors beyond their control. And this was a global question we
asked of 22,000 people online. When you look at Canada, you see a
really, really clear picture.
00:11:40:08 - 00:12:03:12
Gregory
56% of Boomers said it's due to merit and effort, and only 18% said
factors beyond their control. But by the time you get down to Gen
Z, those numbers are tied. 31% of Gen Z say that it's due to merit
and 30% say it's factors beyond their control. And so we have seen
globally some of this difficulty for Generation Z to get a start in
life and take advantage of the institutions that their parents and
grandparents had.
00:12:03:14 - 00:12:22:12
Gregory
But I think that our research does show that that sentiment is
stronger in Canada in some ways than it is in other places. And,
you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that is
driven by cost, of cost of living and not having the means. But
part of it, I think, too, is, as you point out, as Naumi says,
based on how different their world experiences from other
generations.
00:12:22:14 - 00:12:34:06
Alison
That's very fascinating. Thank you both for sharing more on that.
And then, Naumi, I'd love to hear from you how Canadian consumers
are balancing their desire to support local brands with concerns
about rising costs and affordability.
00:12:34:08 - 00:12:51:10
Naumi
Yeah, and we sort of kicked the conversation off with that, right?
There's the desire to buy Canadian and sort of patriotic
purchasing. And then there's the you know, at the same time, it's
it costs money. And so we're having to pullback right now. What
we're seeing is that, Canadians are pissed and they're they're
willing to absorb some pain.
00:12:51:12 - 00:13:22:04
Naumi
So you know, it started off that discussion with with tariffs. And
and Trump is a bit of an inconvenience. You know sort of in the
news. And then it became more of an insult. And I think, you know,
all the 51st state rhetoric was probably a tactical mistake on
Trump's part. It ignited a lot of emotion in Canada, to the point
where now, we have two thirds of Canadians that are saying we
should retaliate against Trump, even if it means Canadians have to
pay more for things because they want to send a message, and I
don't know that that's the response Americans were expecting from
Canadians.
00:13:22:04 - 00:13:43:09
Naumi
That we would stand up for ourselves so much. But we're definitely
seeing that right now. We're also willing, as Canadians to spend to
support Canada, and even more so than than the Americans are right
now. So 74% of Canadians say they had paid more for Canadian-made
products in the past week. That was 66% among Americans that said
that they paid more to buy American-made goods,
00:13:43:11 - 00:14:05:21
Naumi
as a result of, everything that's happening right now. So, you
know, south of the border, we do see shifts in purchasing, but
they're much more driven by sort of financial concerns, people
being more conservative. But up here in Canada, it's definitely
more driven by patriotism, at least for now. So I think we'll,
we'll see how long that lasts or how long we can afford our
morals.
00:14:05:23 - 00:14:11:22
Naumi
But right now, it seems like Canadians are willing to, to suffer a
little bit to buy Canadian and to boycott the U.S.
00:14:12:00 - 00:14:25:13
Alison
There are some categories where it can be more challenging to find
Canadian brands and products. So is that driving the, well, if I
can't find it in Canada, then as long as it's anywhere but the
U.S., I feel that I'm fighting back.
00:14:25:15 - 00:14:47:01
Gregory
Yeah, we're definitely seeing that. There's there's a mixture of
avoid American and buy Canadian. You can't obviously buy certain
products in Canada. So we're trying to find ways to to buy things
like lemons from South Africa, is something that I saw in the
grocery store the other day. And, you know, anecdotally, we needed
some strawberries a couple of weeks ago, and there was American
strawberries for $2.99.
00:14:47:01 - 00:15:09:00
Gregory
And then there were, I think Canadian strawberries were $5.99 or
something? And and we bought the Canadian strawberries because we
were willing to, you know, put a little bit of money behind that. I
think that's definitely something that's happening. But people are
looking for that Canadian claim. They want to buy Canadian products
where they can. And it's not always clear what a Canadian product
is, how these things are measured.
00:15:09:02 - 00:15:28:00
Gregory
The most impactful one is the Made in Canada label. Half of
Canadians say that that label satisfies their desire to buy
Canadian products. In contrast, Product of Canada is slightly
lower, but we know from the CFIA requirements that the requirements
for Product of Canada are actually much stronger. So 98% of the
ingredients have to be Canadian.
00:15:28:01 - 00:15:46:11
Gregory
The threshold for Made in Canada is quite a bit lower. 51% of the
total cost must occur in Canada, and the last transformation must
occur in Canada. So that's complex. I think Canadians are becoming
more aware of what these labels are meaning. I don't know about
you, but when I walk through the grocery store, there's always
people holding a package up and staring at the small print.
00:15:46:13 - 00:16:03:17
Gregory
I would imagine that companies will start making it more prominent
where their products come from if this continues. And probably not
just here, I would say that this is probably going to start to
happen in other places as well. But there's a lot of confusion
right now about the meaning of those terms, and there's some fear
that some retailers might be taking advantage of this "Buy
Canadian."
00:16:03:22 - 00:16:22:05
Gregory
According to some news reports we've seen in publications like the
Globe and Mail. So I think the Globe called it "maple washing",
which is something we used in our survey as well. I don't think we
thought of it, but it seems to be a pretty widespread claim. And we
found that half of Canadians would stop buying from a company
altogether if they found that it was exaggerating how Canadian
these products are.
00:16:22:05 - 00:16:41:18
Gregory
So, one thing that doesn't resonate is "packaged in Canada." Only
6% say that that satisfies their demand to buy a Canadian product,
and only 15% say they would willingly pay more for a product that
is made in the USA but packaged in Canada. So this is one way that
I think retailers and producers are trying to get that Canadian
angle in there and say it's packaged here.
00:16:42:00 - 00:17:03:14
Gregory
That doesn't seem to be as strong a claim as some of the others.
And of course, the best option that the people support the most is
to buy a Canadian product made in Canada by a Canadian-owned
company. 73% said they would pay more for a product that meets that
description. And so I think that there's a lot of nuance in the Buy
Canadian Avoid American, just like there's a bunch of generational
nuance that we've alluded to.
00:17:03:16 - 00:17:28:11
Naumi
Yeah. I mean, and it's evolving a little bit, right, too? So I
think there's more nuanced understanding now. I think we started
out with a bit more of like, you know, screw everything American
kind of mentality because we were feeling insulted, like I said
before. But, you know, Canadians want to support Canadians and
Canadian jobs. So there's the question of, you know, if a company
is American-owned, but they make their products in Canada, is it
okay to support them? Right now
00:17:28:11 - 00:17:51:23
Naumi
that's close to 50% of Canadians that agree with that. That was
four in ten about a month ago. So, you know, there's that shift of
yeah, you know, it's, it's okay if it's an American Company.
They're here. They're supporting Canadian jobs or it's a Canadian
franchise. They're supporting the Canadian community. So there's,
there's definitely that as well. And then you mentioned retailers,
Greg, I think definitely we're seeing people that are willing to
boycott retailers.
00:17:51:23 - 00:18:11:05
Naumi
But I think they get a bit more of a pass. Right. So we said a
quarter of Canadians are avoiding American retailers. That's much
lower than the percent that are avoiding American products, which
is closer to six in ten. So, like Costco is a good example. I mean,
I was I was shopping at Costco recently and, you know, it is an
American retailer, but we were still there trying to buy
Canadian.
00:18:11:05 - 00:18:24:11
Naumi
And I would say about 80% of the items that we left with that they
were in our cart, you know, were Canadian products. So there is
still an option of, yeah, I can I can support an American retailer,
but I can, but I can buy Canadian as well.
00:18:24:13 - 00:18:46:14
Alison
And I understand that Costco was also making it easier, so when you
walk in Costco, they're profiling the Canadian brands and products
as well. And then Greg, going back to your point, it's such an
important education and difference between Product of Canada, Made
in Canada. The CMA in February issued an article to help marketers
understand, because any that fall victim to "maple washing",
00:18:46:14 - 00:18:57:14
Alison
there's such a loss of trust in customers. And your research data
proves that when Canadians figure out that "maple washing" is
happening, it's not just a short term pain for the brand and
business, it will have longer term implications.
00:18:57:16 - 00:19:10:17
Gregory
Yeah, even if they do it accidentally, if they're not meaning to
mislead people, but people feel misled, that alone will will have
consequences and then if they are deliberately misleading, I would
wager that it's going to be even more severe of a reaction.
00:19:10:19 - 00:19:29:11
Naumi
I think on the flip side of the "maple washing", though, for, for,
you know, for the the American brands, that may be listening in
and, you know, the marketers that are supporting American brands,
there is some goodwill to be gained about talking about, you know,
supporting Canadian jobs and supporting the local community and
things like that as well, which, you know, not to say just because
you're an American brand, you shouldn't be talking about that.
00:19:29:11 - 00:19:39:03
Naumi
You can still talk about it, you know, even if you're not Made in
Canada or 100% Product of Canada. Well, we support the Canadian
community, we support Canadian jobs. And that that's still going to
resonate.
00:19:39:05 - 00:20:04:16
Alison
It speaks to the complexity of the issue, because there are so many
Canadian businesses that have significant holdings in Canada,
significant employee places in Canada, and are actively
contributing to our economy. So as the tariffs and Trump and chaos
continue, figuring out how Canadians' views are evolving around
both Canadian brands and businesses, but also American brands and
businesses that are in our country and participating in our
economy
00:20:04:16 - 00:20:20:16
Alison
is going to be fascinating to see how Canadians feelings change and
evolve. And I know it's early days, but in the research so far, are
you seeing any challenges or opportunities for those American
companies that have Canadian employee bases and are contributing to
the economy?
00:20:20:18 - 00:20:42:05
Naumi
I mean, I think there's a lot of uncertainty still, I think it's
maybe still a little bit early to say how Canadians are going to
net out. You know, perhaps as we start to see more a sort of
financial pain behind it, they're going to become more critical.
But I think right now there is for sure an opportunity, like I was
saying, you know, as an American company, you can still be
supporting Canadian jobs.
00:20:42:05 - 00:20:58:06
Naumi
I know some of the retailers that we work with talk about that the
American companies that are, you know, in the QSR space or
restaurant space, there is, you know, often Canadian franchisees,
even though the brand is American, you know, even for like you're
saying, those American companies, there's there's an opportunity
here as well.
00:20:58:08 - 00:21:10:04
Alison
And we touched on this a bit earlier, Naumi, but I'd love to you to
elaborate more on the trends that you're seeing in consumers'
willingness to pay more for Canadian products, and are you seeing
variances across different product groups?
00:21:10:06 - 00:21:33:04
Naumi
For sure. Category makes a huge difference. So food is most
important. It's something you buy all the time. And it's also easy
to identify, right? It's right on there. Where's the product from?
Where is it grown? So food's most important. And some, you know,
for for some foods there there aren't good Canadian options. But
you know there's an anecdotal story about a customer in
grocery store looking for Canadian oranges.
00:21:33:04 - 00:21:55:04
Naumi
Right? It's like, we don't have that, but where's the next best
place I can get oranges? So in food, it's definitely important. But
it may also be not just buy Canadian but don't buy American. So
look for those alternatives, you know, South America, Europe
wherever. And other important categories - financial services. So
Trump started talking about Canada opening up to more U.S.
financial services as one of the requirements.
00:21:55:06 - 00:22:18:04
Naumi
That's not really something Canadians want right now. There's a
strong sense of, you know, I want my financial services to be
provided by Canadian institutions. So that's another important one.
T ravel. There's been a lot of press coverage on travel. Canadians
don't really want to go to the U.S. right now. So we did some
research around travel destinations. You know, back in January,
among Canadians that were planning leisure trips
00:22:18:04 - 00:22:36:12
Naumi
in the next few months, 47% were planning to head to the U.S. About
half of Canadians in any given time that are planning leisure trips
are going to the States. In March, that number cratered. It was
like down to 29%, the lowest it's been since we've been tracking
it. So, you know, people are choosing to go elsewhere. They're
going to Europe, they're taking their money to other places.
00:22:36:12 - 00:22:55:02
Naumi
The ones that people seem to care less about are things like
electronics. A lot of the brands aren't Canadian or American, you
know, the Asian brands for a lot of electronics. So that doesn't
tend to be much of an issue. Streaming services. You may be
surprised to know, people, no one wants to give up their their
Netflix or their Disney Plus.
00:22:55:04 - 00:23:16:23
Naumi
So we're seeing sort of a stronghold on on streaming services. And
then to some extent personal care and, you know, over-the-counter
medications, things like that, that things you get in the
drugstore, are a bit more protected from Canadian sentiment right
now. We don't see that same level of commitment to buying Canadian
or avoiding American. And I think it just comes down to, you know,
it's, it's things that are related,
00:23:17:01 - 00:23:42:17
Naumi
if you're putting it in your body, it's related to your health and
wellness, you're not going to sort of make decisions on that based
on patriotism. So definitely differences by categories. The one
that I think we'll we'll have to wait and see on, that we're
watching continue to track is large purchases. You know, so things
like cars that they don't people don't buy as often, or you know,
we hear anecdotally about Canadian snowbirds selling their U.S.
properties.
00:23:42:17 - 00:23:56:22
Naumi
I mean, those are things that take a lot longer, or cars aren't
thought as frequently, so we don't have data on that right now. So
we'll see what, sort of happens with those larger purchases. But my
sense is that, you know, these for now, we're not seeing a huge
shift there.
00:23:57:00 - 00:24:22:06
Alison
The automotive is an interesting one, because I read another report
where the last quarter we just finished, automotive in Canada
actually saw a spike. And the thinking is that's because people
that were thinking of buying were either delaying their decision
for a year or accelerated it before the impact of the tariffs hit.
And then Greg, looking ahead, how do you foresee the current Buy
Canadian trend evolving and what should marketers be preparing for
in the coming months or years.
00:24:22:06 - 00:24:28:07
Alison
And I know a years is probably too long a horizon at this stage in
the game. So why don't we focus it more at once?
00:24:28:09 - 00:24:43:08
Gregory
Sure. I mean, we advised our clients to look at this sort of in
threes; the next three weeks, the next three months, and the next
three years. And obviously, the further you get to the future, the
harder it is to say. Right now, the question that we've been asking
ourselves at Ipsos and we've been throwing this term around, is
whether this is a moment or a movement.
00:24:43:13 - 00:25:00:05
Gregory
Are people going to abandon this buy Canadian, avoid American, if
we finally either get used to things or if we reach a settlement
with the U.S. of some sort, or if people made the choice for for
the longer term, that they're simply not going to go back to some
of these products, either because they found a pretty good
substitute
00:25:00:05 - 00:25:18:11
Gregory
they get used to, or because they're, they're just, as Naumi said,
pissed, and are unlikely to to let that anger go very quickly. So
we don't yet know that. But but, where I'm honouring that question,
I think that right now we've seen a lot of talk as well about
strengthening ties to Europe. Our poll did show that I think 7 in
10 Canadians think we should do that.
00:25:18:13 - 00:25:37:14
Gregory
And right now it's very two-sided. It's Trump against the world.
Especially since he announced the the reciprocal tariffs, there has
been worldwide reaction to that. And so it's almost like we kind of
got ahead of it a little bit. And now the rest of the world is
going to catch up. 7 in 10 Canadians say that our future is better
served by aligning with like-minded countries in Europe rather than
the U.S.
00:25:37:16 - 00:26:00:05
Gregory
And we're going to keep testing in the future as we continue this
research to see whether this is going to kind of persist. So we've
reached a new phase in the debate, but it's not going to abate
quickly. And we expect these threats to to persist at least until
the midterms, because I think everybody would not be surprised if
coming up to the U.S. midterms, that the Republicans and the
President are looking for ways to get votes and stir up
reaction.
00:26:00:07 - 00:26:24:01
Gregory
They could start targeting Canada or other countries again with new
accusations about something that didn't work over the last year and
a half that was supposed to. And so that's why they have to to then
come after Canada or other countries again. So I think that we can
expect to see this issue persist for the medium-term, even if we
start negotiating a new agreement with the Americans, as we will
have to do, because the free trade agreement is up for renewal.
00:26:24:03 - 00:26:27:06
Gregory
So that's what's going to inform, I think, the next little
while.
00:26:27:07 - 00:26:44:04
Naumi
You know, this isn't over soon. This is going to last for a while.
My my message for marketers, though, would be don't wait, right.
You know, months or years, hopefully not years or months, you know
from now, consumers will have made their brand decision. They'll be
used to buying those, you know Canadian strawberries that you were
talking about, right?
00:26:44:04 - 00:27:12:12
Naumi
Like there the moment of disruption will be over. And I think the
biggest message again is, you know, sort of make your case to
Canadians now while they're reevaluating their decisions. It's,
it's one lesson from the pandemic, it was a window of opportunity
where, you know, consumers were sort of uncertain and it was an
opportunity for brands. There's an interesting metric that we used
to track during the pandemic is, you know, do you trust brands or
the government more in terms of that source of information?
00:27:12:12 - 00:27:30:05
Naumi
And it was like 4 in 10 Canadians at the time said that they trust
brands more than the government for, as a source of
information during the pandemic. So, you know, it's that same type
of mentality right now. There's a lot of uncertainty. You know,
like you said, there's there's an election. So people aren't even
really sure what to think of the government.
00:27:30:08 - 00:27:49:09
Naumi
It's a moment for for brands to, to sort of step in and provide
reassurance, help consumers make decisions. Again, sort of gauging
it by how we operate as a research company. You know, there was a
brief moment of pause in 2020 when the pandemic happened. Everyone
was trying to figure out, you know, what the heck's going on,
what's going to happen?
00:27:49:09 - 00:28:04:15
Naumi
And sort of paused. And we're seeing that we're in that moment, I
think, during tariffs and and everyone's just sort of paused. We
don't know what's going to happen, is it? Are we going to go in
recession? We don't know. But by 2021 I know my teams anyways were
crazy busy. Everyone wanted to know how consumer behaviour is
shifting.
00:28:04:15 - 00:28:20:10
Naumi
What should they do? You know, how important is health and
wellness? All these things. And I think we're going to see the same
pattern now, right? There's a bit of a pause right now, but I'm
expecting, you know, to, to be fairly inundated with questions
around, okay, well, what should we do? I mean, we're already seeing
it, right?
00:28:20:10 - 00:28:35:11
Naumi
We're getting a lot of attention obviously, around the topic, but I
think as companies are thinking about, okay, well actually now what
do I have to do with my brands? What does our portfolio look like?
How am I going to communicate it? What's the messaging? What's the
next creative? I think we're going to, we're going to see a lot of
shifts.
00:28:35:13 - 00:28:54:00
Alison
And given that the pandemic learning is still relatively fresh for
all of us, I don't think there will be the same length of pause,
because we've seen that action and first-mover advantage when it's
done well, can provide some pretty significant benefits. Great
conversation. Before I let you go on with your busy days, I want to
do a bit of a pivot.
00:28:54:02 - 00:29:10:20
Alison
You both have great long standing careers in research, and I know
our listeners would absolutely benefit from learning from your
journey and be very curious to learn from your journey. So to close
off today's discussion, I would love you each to share the top
advice that you would give to our listeners who aspire to follow in
your leadership footsteps.
00:29:10:22 - 00:29:12:15
Alison
And Greg, why don't you kick us off?
00:29:12:17 - 00:29:31:16
Gregory
Sure. That's a great question. And, you know, I like to think that
I've had a mix of good fortune and, and hard work in my career. One
of the things that I would tell somebody who's starting their
career out or even starting a new position, is put your hand up.
Right? There, there is times when we have very busy periods, this
being one of them, and this is a great project.
00:29:31:22 - 00:29:54:13
Gregory
We've had a lot of people at Ipsos who have wanted to work on it,
but it's the ones who put their hand up and really gone in with
both feet that are going to benefit from that experience. They're
going to benefit from, getting to know other people across the
company. This was a bit unique for Ipsos because Naumi and I do
such different things, but our teams are now working together on on
a common cause, and they've gotten to know some of their colleagues
as well by, by doing that, by putting their hand up.
00:29:54:13 - 00:30:03:23
Gregory
So if I had one piece of advice, it would be when, when, you know,
crisis like this strikes or when there's an opportunity, I
volunteer to be involved, because that's how you learn.
00:30:04:01 - 00:30:21:21
Naumi
That's a good one. I 100% agree. I would say another one is, you
know, don't be afraid to be a little bit provocative to to tell the
story. You know, the title of our the project is "Trump, Tariffs
and Turmoil," which is a little bit, you know, more provocative
than what you might expect from a, from a research company.
00:30:22:02 - 00:30:38:04
Naumi
But it all comes down to the storytelling, right? A lot of
researchers are good with data, are good at numbers, but you've got
to convert that into a story to grab people's attention. We live in
an attention economy. And and you know, headlines and and the story
and the narrative that you're able to tell, are important.
00:30:38:04 - 00:30:41:03
Naumi
And I think that's served me well, certainly in my career.
00:30:41:05 - 00:31:01:05
Alison
Our listeners will be very well-served to listen to both of those
pieces of advice. So thank you very much. And Naumi and Greg, I
really appreciate the conversation. It couldn't be more timely. And
I love that Ipsos is going to be tracking this on an ongoing basis
so we can see having you back down the road and see how things are
evolving, and then also the nuanced, nationalism report that you
mentioned.
00:31:01:07 - 00:31:09:06
Alison
What we'll do is provide a link to that in our notes as well. I
know that will be of interest to our listeners, too. So thank you
both. I really appreciate our time together today.
00:31:09:12 - 00:31:10:22
Naumi
Thanks so much for having us.
00:31:10:23 - 00:31:12:21
Gregory
Thank you very much.
00:31:12:23 - 00:31:25:12
Presenter
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