May 28, 2025
How are tariff disputes and economic uncertainty reshaping Canadian consumer behaviour? In this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes Scott Megginson, President of Kantar Canada and Sean Martin, General Manager at Numerator. Their conversation explores the nuances of the "Buy Canadian" sentiment, its impact on domestic and international brands, and provides strategic advice for marketers navigating this complex landscape.
00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:19
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry
experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that
will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while
also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO,
Alison Simpson.
00:00:22:21 - 00:00:46:03
Alison
In today's episode, we're tackling a topic that's been dominating
headlines and boardroom discussions alike. The shifting landscape
of Canadian consumer behaviour in the wake of recent tariff
disputes, and the global political and economic uncertainty.
Joining me today are two of Canada's top insights and analytics
leaders. Scott Megginson, president of Kantar Canada, is a veteran
with over 30 years of market research.
00:00:46:05 - 00:01:14:17
Alison
He's held significant roles at Angus Reid Group, Warner Lambert
Canada, PepsiCo Canada and has led Kantar Canada for the past 15
years. Scott, also a regular industry speaker, the past Chair of
Queen's University Dean's Council of Arts and Science and the
founding president of the Canadian Advisory Council for the
Insights Association. Joining Scott and me today is Sean Martin,
general manager at Numerator, and a trusted advisor to many of the
largest companies across North America.
00:01:14:19 - 00:01:35:09
Alison
Sean also started his career working for leading brands and held
senior roles at Mars, GSK and Procter Gamble before taking the lead
role at Numerator, where he's led the Canadian business for five
years. Scott can be sharing key insights from what Kantar is seeing
about Canadians perspective and planned behaviours, and how they're
changing as a result of the chaos that's emerging from south of the
border.
00:01:35:11 - 00:02:01:23
Alison
He's also covering important considerations for brands. Sean will
complement this by highlighting the actual ways that Canadians'
behaviours have changed when it comes to their purchase decisions
and actions. Together, the three of us are diving into how Canadian
consumers are responding to the call to buy Canadian, as well as
the risks and opportunities for both domestic and international
brands, and the very delicate balance between patriotic messaging
and authentic brand positioning.
00:02:02:01 - 00:02:16:01
Alison
From the pitfalls of maple washing to the surprising resilience of
shopping habits, our guests will share their latest research and
offer valuable advice for marketers navigating through these
turbulent waters. Welcome Scott and Sean, it is an absolute
pleasure to have you here today.
00:02:16:02 - 00:02:17:02
Scott
Thank you Alison.
00:02:17:04 - 00:02:19:09
Sean
Thank you Alison. Wonderful to be here.
00:02:19:11 - 00:02:28:17
Alison
Now, I'd love to have you both answer my first question. Can you
each share what your organizations are doing to track Canadian
consumer behaviour? And, Scott, why don't you kick things off?
00:02:28:22 - 00:02:29:15
Sean
We've been looking
00:02:29:15 - 00:02:59:14
Scott
at different ways to to really understand what Canadian consumers
are feeling, because there's just there's so much out there and
there's so much in chat and social and everywhere else. And that's
one of the first things that we started looking at, was, using our,
we call it DX analytics, but really, analyzing search and social
signals to get a good understanding of how Canadian consumers are
seeing brands.
00:02:59:15 - 00:03:28:15
Scott
I mean, do they see them as Canadian or not Canadian? With all the
confusion of being in Canada and product of Canada and such, but
also the sentiment, and that's been giving us some useful insights,
both for Canadian brands and for multinationals. Secondly, there's
a lot of polling and a lot of attitudinal data floating around out
there, but we wanted to go a little bit deeper, and we've been
engaging our Canada Monitor team to really look at the trends and
how the values have shifted underneath that.
00:03:28:17 - 00:03:46:21
Scott
And we've just launched a global study. We call it Barometer. And
we did this during Covid as well. But it's a global study that
we're going to have results for pretty soon and we'll be sharing
them out with people and how consumers in different markets are
really seeing tariffs and and what their responses are and with
some of their shopping habits.
00:03:46:23 - 00:04:10:19
Scott
And the third piece I think is important. It's been going back what
we've learned. I mean, we've been through different crises before.
I mentioned Covid. We've gone through different financial crises in
the past as well. And we have a lot of learnings for brands and for
advertising that we've gone back to look at and pull the dust off a
bit, but also try to see which are relevant to bring back to the
market for consideration.
00:04:10:20 - 00:04:13:23
Scott
So those are your three areas for us basically.
00:04:14:01 - 00:04:27:01
Alison
That's great. Scott. It will be fascinating to see how the global
study around how countries around the world are reacting to
tariffs. That will be very valuable insights for our listeners and
certainly for Canadian brands and businesses. And Sean, what about
you?
00:04:27:02 - 00:04:56:07
Sean
Yeah. Thanks, Alison. For for those that you don't know Numerator
we are the largest single source data lake in Canada. And so in a
nutshell we collect 12 million receipts from 165,000 Canadians,
including Amazon purchases, Walmart purchases as well as hundreds
of demographics. And we put it all into our data lake. And with
that, we seek to understand what people are actually doing with
their purchases and how their opinions are changing, how their
sentiment changes, and how it's impacting purchases.
00:04:56:09 - 00:05:29:15
Sean
As it specifically relates to this, this Buy Canadian and tariff
phenomenon, we've gone ahead and segmented our panel based on
shoppers; claimed sentiment around their intentionality. Therefore,
we now have segments for people that claim to buy Canadian, who
want to avoid U.S. retailers or avoid U.S. brands. And so we're
working with our clients to not only understand how their consumers
are thinking about it, where they sit in this range, but also
tracking their actual purchases and seeing if the sentiments they
claim are results in real actions at the store.
00:05:29:17 - 00:05:54:10
Alison
And that's a really powerful part of the conversation we can have
today. It's one thing to understand how Canadians across the
country are feeling and planning to behave, but to actually be able
to back that up with actual change in behaviour will make for a
very fascinating conversation. So thank you both for being here
today. Now, Scott, what is your research showing when it comes to
Canadian sentiment towards Canadian brands versus American brands
versus international brands?
00:05:54:12 - 00:06:20:22
Scott
This is an interesting one, Alison. And we're just starting to get
into it. I'll share an example from coffee. What's more Canadian
than coffee, right? But we're now digging into, ten different
categories and different brands across this. And the first learning
was that it's not that black and white, and it's not a clear
correlation between how consumers see brands.
00:06:20:22 - 00:06:38:20
Scott
So let's call it provenance or how Canadian a brand is, or created
a Canadian index, you know, from 0 to 100 of how Canadian your
brand is seen. And then we looked at sentiment as well. So positive
or negative. So what's associated with that? And we're getting this
from search and social like I mentioned before. And it was really
interesting.
00:06:38:21 - 00:06:58:12
Scott
Let's take a case of a few different brands here. And you have a
brand like Second Cup. And if you look at it, Second Cup has become
even more Canadian in association recently. I think a lot of that
had to do with This Hour Has 22 Minutes. They have that viral thing
and that's one of the brands that they called out.
00:06:58:14 - 00:07:24:08
Scott
And, but we saw that their sentiment hadn't changed versus a year
ago. Now meanwhile, it has, because back in the end of last year,
their sentiment took a nosedive due to some, let's just say,
political statements of one of their franchisee's owners. And it
was, it made the news and it took a dive. But what's happened to
Second Cup is they have, shot right back up to where they were.
00:07:24:08 - 00:07:50:10
Scott
So they've recovered their sentiment and been seen as more
Canadian. Then you have the big brands like Tim Hortons, which is,
with all the scrutiny, is being seen as a little less Canadian as
people look into ownership. But their sentiment hasn't changed that
much. People love their Timmie's. And there's almost the same from
McDonald's. I mean, McDonald's was never considered a Canadian
brand, but their sentiment hasn't changed much, meaning,
00:07:50:11 - 00:08:21:09
Scott
or you could interpret, that it's not just about being Canadian.
And that's what we're seeing with the maple washing. It's a lot
more than that for a brand. The last example of that is Starbucks.
And Starbucks, clearly not a Canadian brand. I mean, what could be
more Seattle, than Starbucks? But their sentiment has really,
really improved. So this tells us that there's, just using a
microcosm here of coffee, that there's room for all brands to
improve their relationships with consumers, whether they're
Canadian or not.
00:08:21:09 - 00:08:26:12
Scott
And it's about getting the messaging right and the servicing right
and delivering great customer experience.
00:08:26:14 - 00:08:44:15
Alison
Now, I know many Canadians are planning to buy Canadian. And Scott,
as you called out, coffee is a fairly easy sector to do that in.
Not all industries are as easy to buy Canadian if that's your
appetite. So Sean, I'm curious to hear from you how Canadians are
actually changing their buying behaviours.
00:08:44:17 - 00:09:08:05
Sean
Yeah, absolutely. And I think Scott's absolutely right. And I love
the lead of it's not simple. It's a little more complicated. And we
always have to remember that the Buy Canadian, you know, sentiment
and uproar, which is very real for Canadians today. In fact 60% of
Canadians are saying they intend to buy Canadian, yet only 40% say
they intend to buy less U.S.
00:09:08:06 - 00:09:35:07
Sean
So it's very obvious that the sentiment is a positive one, a
patriotic one versus one where they're seeking to punish U.S.
retailers or brands. But it really is based on on the background of
a, of a very difficult economy. And Buy Canada is really just one
sentiment driving consumers' purchase decisions. In fact, 88% of
consumers, much more than are worried about Buy Canada, are really
focused on concerns around their everyday value and the impact
tariffs are going to have every day.
00:09:35:09 - 00:09:56:16
Sean
And so it's critical for business owners to understand that Buy
Canada is one sentiment driving purchase decisions. But it may not
be, to Scott's point, as simple as the only one. And so it's
incredibly important to understand overall how people are reacting
when they're faced with purchasing every day. For us in our
business, what we've seen is something, you know, pretty
interesting and pretty diverse.
00:09:56:16 - 00:10:30:15
Sean
And really, to Scott's point, comes down to it's more complex than
just Buy Canada and you really need to understand specific
categories and consumers. For example, take U.S. retailers. So
predominantly a lot of Canadians will say today that they are
seeking to avoid U.S. retailers, some of the ones. But when you
actually look at the purchase data, what you see is there's not a
significant change in Canadians willing to sacrifice the
convenience, the value, the location of a retail shop in order to
seek out Canadian brands, or more importantly, to avoid U.S.
retailers.
00:10:30:17 - 00:10:54:21
Sean
In fact, it's so extreme that in our panel, the people that came to
be U.S. avoiders, people who claim to be strongly seeking to avoid
U.S. retailers also haven't changed their their shopping habits at
all. The fact is that these people were always shopping U.S.
retailers less, and they've just found that this sentiment around
avoiding U.S. retailers is a nice label to put on a habit that
they've already been doing.
00:10:54:23 - 00:11:22:09
Sean
And so often we see that the sentiment doesn't overpower the cost
of having to change a habit like a retailer choice. U.S. retailers
continue to grow, especially where they're offering value. Now,
where we see real differences is in category and brands. And
absolutely, the anger driven by some of the things going on in the
U.S. from tariffs is resulting in real shopping behaviours, where
Canadians are willing to change their basket to match their
sentiment.
00:11:22:12 - 00:11:52:19
Sean
And we see this across the board. We've done work across everything
from packaged bread to mayonnaise to pet food. What you see as if
you can look at shoppers today, Canadian brands, since the tariffs
are growing share at a faster rate than non-Canadian brands. And
even more interestingly, to kind of reinforce the power of that
message when we segment our business on shoppers that say express
some very strong sentiment to buying Canadian, they are growing
faster than the average consumer.
00:11:52:19 - 00:12:22:20
Sean
So this is this is a a trend that has taken hold for Canadians. And
in a lot of ways, and a lot of brands, they're willing to check
labels in order to, to try to skew their purchases to Canadian.
Now, the one thing I will say is that for all brand managers is you
have to know your consumer, and you have to know your category,
because we see massive differences across categories. Categories
that are taste-oriented or are easy to determine the local nature
of the product,
00:12:23:01 - 00:12:47:07
Sean
we see big changes and a big willingness to move. But in categories
that have either have a high cost of educating yourself on is it
Canadian or not? I think Scott mentioned the word maple washing or
understanding, or categories like HABA or baby care, where there is
a high cost to change, we're seeing a much smaller impact, even
with those Canadians that say they have a very high intent to shop
Canadian.
00:12:47:09 - 00:12:52:10
Sean
So again, and often that cost trumps the desire to be Canadian.
00:12:52:12 - 00:13:15:06
Scott
Those are great insights, Sean. I mean, when you look category by
category too, it's other trends or consumer behaviours in the past,
I know in an earlier conversation we talked about sustainability
and people wanting to do a certain thing. But then there's the
price to it and the cost. And then you talked about the habit of
switching. I mean, switching diapers is an easy thing to do if the
diapers work.
00:13:15:08 - 00:13:21:04
Scott
You know, we both have kids. But it is interesting. I mean, it's
not just being Canadian that's going to do it.
00:13:21:06 - 00:13:46:06
Sean
Yeah, I agree Scott, often it is a economic choice that trumps. But
we also have to remember that, you know, Canadians are at a tipping
point. I think Stats Canada published the average Canadian's 97% of
disposable income is now being spent. So you have to understand
that there's a willingness, but there's also unfortunately, a lot
of Canadians today don't have the ability or the flexibility to
make a choice when it comes down to buy Canada versus not.
00:13:46:08 - 00:14:03:00
Alison
What's the role of convenience in that decision to you? So if I
have the best of intentions that I want to buy Canadian, and maybe
it's more challenging than I thought to find a particular Canadian
brand, or comes at a premium, I understand obviously the price
implications. Some people just don't have the reality to be able to
spend more.
00:14:03:02 - 00:14:05:12
Alison
But is convenience playing a role in it too?
00:14:05:14 - 00:14:27:17
Sean
Absolutely. I think when you think about the regular purchasing
drivers that are the overpowering reasons people choose to
purchase, often for value, to find the selection they're looking
for that match their product needs, Alison. And then the
convenience, time, the value of time and the value in all our
lives, with kids, with everything else, often trumps our
intentionality of our good intentions or the things we like to say
we will do.
00:14:27:19 - 00:14:49:18
Sean
And I think the other thing marketers have to realize is the
barriers to being omnichannel have declined precipitously. So, you
know, we continue to see online, especially in categories like
CABA. While penetration has not grown since the Covid, we continue
to see loyalty and buy rate increase exponentially. So those that
have tried online are getting more and more comfortable.
00:14:49:18 - 00:15:08:23
Sean
And the barrier to shopping online is down. So convenience doesn't
just have to be the five minute drive to your grocery store. It's
convenience in a, in an omni channel as consumers shop across
channels. And and that's hard to change. It is very hard to change
and get rid of the convenience of going to the drugstore on the
corner to get your beauty regimen.
00:15:09:01 - 00:15:18:01
Sean
It's very hard to drive by several value-oriented retailers in
order to find the one, because you want to shop based on that
sentiment.
00:15:18:03 - 00:15:51:08
Scott
Yeah, you know, a quick build there, actually two things. One of
them is when you look at the in-store condition, too, I mean, I've
done so much research over the years, both on the client side and
on the current supplier side that I'm on. And shelf decisions are
made in like a 200th of a second. And so right now, people are
giving a little bit of extra time to, you know, use their app and
scan a product or check the provenance of a specific product.
That's not going to last long term, because that's just not the way
people are wired when they're shopping.
00:15:51:08 - 00:16:12:09
Scott
I think it's just a blip in time for that. Convenience is very
important. And that's where even the brand work we do. We talk
about salience. It's critical for your products to be salient. So
the top of mind when people go to make a shopping decision, you
know whether it's online or whether it's an in-store. If we start
dropping the ball as marketers on focusing on building salience,
we're going to be in big trouble.
00:16:12:11 - 00:16:33:17
Scott
And a lot of people are sitting there, sitting and waiting right
now, with all the uncertainty in the markets. But it's really a
time to be getting your brand message out there. And, you know, the
last piece of that's pricing, and pricing power that we talked
about, and that's a whole cost and worth balance between brands.
And you can't justify a premium just being Canadian, maybe for a
week or two.
00:16:33:17 - 00:16:39:20
Scott
but those are things we have to think about long term. And that's
the importance of brand building right now for both convenience and
for price.
00:16:39:22 - 00:17:07:01
Sean
Yeah, I mean, I would love to add something. I think something
Scott said, just really resonate with me. It really comes down in
my mind of, do you have the product fit to your view of the
consumers looking for? And but he way, if marketers are not seeking
to understand at a deeper level what their consumers, both their
current consumers of their products to understand what their
sentiments are truly and are instead looking at the average
Canadian, then, I think it was Harvard
00:17:07:03 - 00:17:29:14
Sean
Business Review that said that any strategy built on the average is
doomed to fail. And so I think understanding how do we get away
from measuring the average so we can understand our consumer? So to
Scott's point, we can do that connection, making sure our brands
have salience is is unbelievable insight and something that we that
marketers don't spend more time on right now versus worrying about
the sentiment concerns and changing.
00:17:29:16 - 00:17:46:00
Alison
And, Scott, you also highlighted that Canadians who can afford to
are willing to pay a bit of a premium. But the other thing that's
very dangerous for marketers and brands right now is if they decide
to take advantage of that and price gouge, there's been a couple of
examples of that. And it's, there's never a good time to do that in
my mind.
00:17:46:00 - 00:17:57:04
Alison
But now is the worst time to do that because Canadians, if they
feel that they're being taken advantage of while we're trying to do
what we think is right, the risk for long term business and brand
damage is incredible.
00:17:57:06 - 00:18:24:19
Scott
Oh, 100%, Alison. Pricing is something that gets built up over time
by a meaningful difference for a brand and building a
differentiation and creating that whole value equation. And you
take a look at the, now you can see they've bounced back pretty
well, but take a look at the hit that Loblaws took and other
retailers over the last couple of years for pricing-related issues
right now, and they really had to change their way of doing
business to start recapturing consumers.
00:18:24:21 - 00:18:42:07
Scott
It's the same for brands and any price-gouging or negatives like
that are going to have a long term consequence, and then you get
into a price game where cheaper people will come along, becomes,
lessen your brand and switching goes up and you're commoditized
over time. Happened in the orange juice category, happens in a lot
of categories.
00:18:42:09 - 00:18:53:08
Alison
Now Sean, you typically in research see regional or generational
differences. So when you looked at how Canadian consumer buying
behaviour is changing, did you notice any big regional or
generational differences?
00:18:53:10 - 00:19:14:15
Sean
Yeah, absolutely. I think we've seen very, very specific
differences both on a regional and a generational point of view, as
you would expect. From a from a generational point of view, the the
Buy Canadian shopper tends to over-index a little bit older, tends
to be a little bit more white or European, and come from a smaller
household than the general population.
00:19:14:17 - 00:19:43:19
Sean
But the the biggest changes we see and probably the most impactful
is, as Canadian marketers seek to drive their go to market
strategies, is from a regional point of view. And largely you can
read it east to west. We see that, you know, both in Atlantic
Canada and Quebec, not only is the sentiment around buy Canadian
much higher and much over-indexed than the rest of Canada, but we
also see that the actual purchasing behaviour has been has been
more impactful.
00:19:43:20 - 00:20:05:08
Sean
And as you move kind of west, you hit Ontario and out west, you see
that sentiment around buy Canadian as a driver of purchase and
intentionality decreased quite a bit. So it's very much a East to
West phenomenon, although, you know, anytime sentiments are above
30, 40%, they're almost always but they tend to over-index from a
passion in Atlantic Canada and Quebec.
00:20:05:10 - 00:20:28:09
Sean
And then from an actual purchase behaviour, Alison, what we see is,
Quebec especially, we talked about retailers. U.S. retailers have
largely been unimpacted by a U.S. branding or a perception of U.S.
In Quebec, we see a little different. While those trends are still
positive, they're much more muted than the rest of Canada. Instead
what we see is a big halo effect for some of the,
00:20:28:09 - 00:20:55:22
Sean
the truly Quebec brands that they see, brands like Metro and IGA.
And absolutely, I think when you think as a marketer around, you
know, Quebec and their purchase intent, you do have to think a
little bit around, there has been a significant upswing in Canadian
nationalism in Quebec for the first time in a while, but how long
is that Canadian nationalism versus more around a really a local
view of, of one of my local, which really, pardon my terrible
French,
00:20:55:22 - 00:21:29:08
Sean
but it is more around "a la mode du Québec" than it is around made
in Canada. And what we do see is while Canadian brands are getting
that same halo, very much in a market where Canadian brands or more
U.S. brands have traditionally been under-shared, versus
international brands like D'Italiano bread or L'Oreal skincare. We
see, a little bit of more of a halo around those both those
international brands, as well as purely local brands like Pride of
Montreal that have have got a big hold from a buy local point of
view, not just a Canadian sentiment.
00:21:29:10 - 00:21:38:13
Alison
And Sean, do you think part of that halo around the international
brands is if they can't find a local brand to avoid buying
American, they'll go anything but American?
00:21:38:15 - 00:22:09:03
Sean
Yeah. I mean, there's always been a history and especially in some
of the more difficult categories like like health and beauty,
Alison, or where it's difficult to tell what is what is buy Canada.
Québecers have always over-indexed in more French brands or
national brands from a comfort point of view. And so while local
Quebec brands are doing well, we do see that there's still the gap
between the international brand and a identified American brand,
and there's a little bit of momentum behind that change as
well.
00:22:09:03 - 00:22:11:21
Sean
So absolutely, it's it's there.
00:22:11:22 - 00:22:33:13
Scott
You know what's interesting there as well. I mean for years and
years and years we've been looking at advertising in Quebec versus
outside of Quebec, and the rest of Canada, even getting down to
other regions. And, and correctly assumed that, you know, national
advertising doesn't work that well in Quebec. And it's been
documented and we've seen that time and time again.
00:22:33:15 - 00:22:54:13
Scott
But, we're also seeing some different approaches to advertising
right now because of the tariffs. And, you know, I think about
Kraft Heinz had a couple, one of them was about Heinz ketchup and
that it's Ontario tomatoes and it's made in a Quebec plant.
And really building on, you know, the the impact they have on the
economy and agriculture and workers in those.
00:22:54:13 - 00:23:30:05
Scott
And they did it again, during the Superbowl or Kraft dinner and the
plant. And then on the other side of the coin, so you have national
advertising that is really pulling on some Quebec heartstrings as
well, or has the ability to. And then Aylmer did a really
interesting and controversial ad, by the way, where, it was this
spit commercial where they're eating soup and realized is made in
the U.S. and spit it out on camera. It was really, really clever
stuff, but it gets to the Made in Quebec part that Sean's talking
about that also has legs outside of this region for the rest of the
country.
00:23:30:07 - 00:23:38:04
Scott
So I think it's a it's an interesting opportunity to look at some,
national advertising at the same time, building on, you know,
Quebec in different regions.
00:23:38:06 - 00:23:46:00
Alison
And Scott building on that, we talked a little bit about maple
washing. So what do you see are the risks of brands that are being
labeled with maple washing?
00:23:46:02 - 00:24:09:02
Scott
Well, first of all it's losing any point of differentiation or
brand equity you've had, whether you're watch TV or the radio or
things flashing up on your phone, it's just an incredible amount of
advertisers are trying to take a shortcut right now, as we were
touching on earlier just about being Canadian, like that's all
there is to it. And we know that's not all there is to a brand at
all.
00:24:09:04 - 00:24:27:21
Scott
You know, brand has to deliver in so many different ways, stand out
from the others, you know, command that price premium potentially
that we talked about and that's built over years and years and
years and throwing out messages that have nothing to do with your
brand are the quickest way to, first of all, waste advertising
dollars.
00:24:27:23 - 00:24:48:12
Scott
But the second part of that is you could be taking away from some
strong equity you have. The other part is you may or may not have
credentials to do this. You know, there are brands that have a
really deeply-rooted in the Canadian experience and community. And
I think about brands like Canadian Tire, Tim Hortons, and you think
about whoever owns them,
00:24:48:12 - 00:25:22:09
Scott
you can think about a lot of brands like that. But if you are a
multinational brand, you may not have to say anything. You may not
need to go near that space right now. Just talk about what your
brand is and all the things that's made it great for so many years.
Because as soon as you're inauthentic, or unauthentic, I always get
that one wrong, and as soon as you're making claims that people
don't believe, whether sometimes they're true or not, but you go
too far, you break the trust of consumers, and you're going to see
a very fast erosion in your brand equity as a result.
00:25:22:11 - 00:25:41:15
Scott
So, you know, I'm not saying this because we do this kind of work.
Go to anybody, but test your messaging first and make sure that
it's believable, it's resonating, and it's also going to lead to
purchase intent, which at the end of the day you're trying to drive
sales. There are no shortcuts. And that's what we're seeing with
maple washing.
00:25:41:17 - 00:26:02:10
Alison
Now you both are in the market daily and you've got a lot of very
good recent research on how Canadians are acting in the current
climate and how they intend to act. So of all the research findings
you've seen over the last few weeks, what surprised you the most
that any marketer who's joined us today should know? And, Scott, do
you want to kick things off?
00:26:02:12 - 00:26:31:06
Scott
It's not just about being more or less Canadian. And that's what
we're finding from our search and social work. The sentiment is not
necessarily tied to being Canadian. Gets back to that advertising
piece and messaging piece that we just touched on as well, that
there's plenty of space for multinational brands to thrive in this
market. And, you know, it's not about like trying to appear more
Canadian or, you know, looking at your credentials and Sean said it
well too, like your brand message is what you say.
00:26:31:06 - 00:26:50:04
Scott
Your brand equity is what people believe about your brand at the
end of the day. So I think, like the first surprise, because I was
caught up with the passion as a consumer and a shopper and a
Canadian. I was caught up like everybody else. And then the
research is showing that I'm seeing so far, that it's not
everything.
00:26:50:06 - 00:27:05:17
Scott
And so, you know, we have so many great multinational brands in
this country, and they've all been part of our legacy and their
life experiences as well. But there's plenty and plenty of room for
them to continue to build their brands. That's the one that really
caught my attention.
00:27:05:19 - 00:27:30:00
Sean
Absolutely echo Scott's view around sentiment, translating to
actually and understanding that the Buy Canada may not be
everything. And I and I think the biggest surprise I've seen, you
know, we live in a world where it feels like the clickbait, a lot
of doom and gloom. I've been incredibly surprised at how many
opportunities for demand growth and excitement there are with
Canadian consumers today.
00:27:30:02 - 00:27:46:20
Sean
And I go back to the, I feel like a broken record of, if you don't
look at the average and you understand your consumer and what's
driving their purchase decision, and whether it be in the Buy
Canada or U.S. avoiders, whether it be in why they're choosing a
new Canadians as there's so many opportunities to drive your your
demand growth,
00:27:46:20 - 00:28:07:13
Sean
if you understand why someone is making the decision they're
making. And so that that is, I think, been something that has
surprised me about that in a world where it feels like there's not
a lot of opportunities to drive strategic decisions and actions,
there's actually a lot of opportunities where shoppers are spending
and they're willing to spend if you get your message right.
00:28:07:13 - 00:28:14:05
Sean
But you have to understand how Canadians are operating as
individuals, not as an average consumers.
00:28:14:07 - 00:28:39:04
Alison
Sean, I'll also say that that's very encouraging for everyone
that's tuned in today to know that with the right understanding and
the right of your consumer and the right marketing approach,
Canadians are willing to spend. So that gives us all lots of hope.
Now, you both have clearly have deep insights into Canadian
consumer behaviour on the actions. So what advice would you give
marketers as they navigate through the rising Canadian patriotism
and global economic uncertainty?
00:28:39:06 - 00:28:43:01
Alison
And Sean, you've shared a bit of advice already. Is there anything
else you'd like to add?
00:28:43:03 - 00:29:09:08
Sean
Yeah, I mean, I think again, understand your consumer, understand
them at a level that's deep enough to to actually identify real
differences so you can make decisions against them. I would
absolutely add to that the power of consumer, but also the power of
your product and making sure that your product is really meeting
the jobs to be done of your consumer and that you're differentiated
enough to command not only the right to be bought, but also at a
premium.
00:29:09:08 - 00:29:27:23
Sean
So whether that's jobs to be done from fulfilling a Buy Canada if
you have that authenticity, but also jobs to be done when it comes
across all the different, you know, choices and reasons why someone
would buy your brand. So understand the consumer and match your
product differentiation of the jobs to be done I think are just
good work.
00:29:28:01 - 00:29:50:22
Scott
Wise words Sean and I'll add three. I'll add three things when it
comes to, you know, advertising and marketing as well. One of them
is do not go dark. This is the worst time to go to dark. Any time
is a bad time to go to dark, and it will take years to rebuild your
current levels of salience
00:29:51:03 - 00:30:19:18
Scott
if you stop your messaging now. And that will cost a lot more than
maintaining your presence with consumers. We call it a recovery
period. And you're gonna have a long recovery if you stop
messaging. Number two is, we talked about the sea of sameness
around Canadian credential advertising. And a lot of the
advertising can get pretty bland and be, you know, one ad kind of
same as the other ad with messaging and everything else.
00:30:19:20 - 00:30:42:21
Scott
The one thing to remember is just like, people need a break from
that. And in all of our advertising research over different crises
and moments in time, don't forget the power of appropriate humour
in advertising as a way to stand out and give people a mental break
from everything that's going on. They're stressed out enough. It's
not too soon to get back to a good joke.
00:30:42:21 - 00:31:08:13
Scott
I think people, and we see it again in our research, that people
appreciate that, and your advertising will stand out. And the third
one, and this is a pitch Alison, it's something we're doing, the
case for Canadian Creative. We're going to be speaking to,
advertising testing and advertising effectiveness in the U.S.
versus Canada. But we've seen over and over again that U.S. ads do
not necessarily perform well in Canada.
00:31:08:15 - 00:31:34:03
Scott
Right now is not the time to be using U.S. advertising in this
market, with this heightened sensitivity, it's pretty clear to
consumers around their messaging and how the brand and people are
shown in ads. This is not a good time. And I always say, it's, you
know, penny rich and pound foolish to try to save a few bucks on
your production versus the millions and millions that you spend on
media.
00:31:34:05 - 00:31:53:12
Scott
Now's not the time to repurpose ads from other markets unless you
have tested them and you're sure that they're going to resonate
well. It could actually take away from your brand. So three things
with advertising to be careful of - don't go dark, don't be afraid
of a good joke, and be careful about using creative from other
markets.
00:31:53:14 - 00:32:18:06
Alison
That's great counsel, and thanks for pitching the CMA Case for
Canada event in June. That's going to be a great continuation of
this conversation for sure. And then on your don't go dark, the
other side of that is, because many businesses do go dark in an
economic downturn, those that don't, or better yet, heavy up their
investment, see significant business returns and long-standing
business returns.
00:32:18:06 - 00:32:37:01
Alison
So there's a lot of reasons not to be cutting marketing spend right
now. Now, before I let you both get on with your busy day, I want
to end with a question that's more around career advice. You both
have incredible, very enviable and long-standing careers, and I
know our listeners will absolutely benefit from hearing about your
journey.
00:32:37:06 - 00:32:47:05
Alison
So to close off the discussion, I'd love you each to share one
piece of advice for our listeners who aspire to follow in your
footsteps. And Sean, do you want to kick things off?
00:32:47:07 - 00:33:08:11
Sean
Absolutely. I mean, the biggest advice I'll give and I'll, I'll
focus on people early in their careers because I feel like often in
today's world, that's where people are looking on, what's next? How
far do I go? And and they're filled with all the wonderful things
they're going to do in their career. My big advice is really focus
on building your equity, your talent, your skill set.
00:33:08:11 - 00:33:44:13
Sean
And don't be as as rushed to run to the next, but really enjoy the
the work you're doing, the things and the challenges and and I and
I give that advice for a couple reasons. A - you know, my
experience I've gotten the honour to work in CPG for, for many
years and then make the jump into tech. That ability to move, both
across brands and across industries and even into leisure space,
was done because, you know, I, I built a very good core skill set
around CPG and understanding and the market, and so building that
foundation has served me incredibly well since I started and
focused. And then and then the second one is the
00:33:44:13 - 00:34:14:02
Sean
other big advice I give to anybody is let your, you know, choose
your career path once you figure out what what drives value for
you. We've talked about the cost of time. We talked about
convenience. You know, that cost is very small when you enjoy what
you do. And I and I find I built that early in my career where I,
where I really realized that, you know, I get a lot of value by
creating value for others, whether it be insights or CPG, working
with people like Scott, for my family, my kids.
00:34:14:02 - 00:34:32:00
Sean
And so I've always since then sought out roles that allowed me to
maximize how much value I can create for others, and it's allowed
me to to move quickly. It's allowed me to get through these tough
times, or sometimes where you're feeling like, I don't want to get
up. It makes the cost of time very small if you love what you
do.
00:34:32:18 - 00:34:56:16
Scott
I mean, the first one for me is pretty simple, and it's just about
embracing change. I mean, research is all about questions and
finding new ways to answer them. And, you know, I think about,
through my career, about the resistance to things like online
research, the automation, and now people are a little scared of AI.
And it's, if you're scared of these things, you're going to
fail.
00:34:56:19 - 00:35:18:09
Scott
I mean, it's, how are you going to leverage these to get the
answers in a whole new and exciting way? So keeping an open mind
and keeping on top of all the rapid changes in technology. And
number two is, just, take it from Bill and Ted's Excellent
Adventure. This is a very small community. Be excellent to one
another, always.
00:35:18:11 - 00:35:30:23
Scott
It's a small world. You're going to be working with people again
and again, and if you treat people with a lot of respect and a lot
of interest, you're going to you're going to do well and others
around you will do well too.
00:35:30:23 - 00:35:51:00
Alison
Outstanding advice. And I love the Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure
reference. Thank you both. Really great conversation. You've shared
really important insights and research-backed knowledge that
everyone that's tuned in will absolutely benefit from. So, I also
know you're incredibly busy, especially right now, so thank you
both for making time to join me today and for a really great
conversation.
00:35:51:02 - 00:35:51:19
Scott
Thanks Alison.
00:35:51:21 - 00:35:54:15
Sean
It was fantastic. Thanks, Alison. Thanks, Scott.
Scott
Thanks Sean.
00:35:54:17 - 00:36:09:04
Presenter
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