Wed, 28 August 2019
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we’ve got Skye Evans, Cloud Consultant at Cloud for Good and a member of our amazing Vetforce community. She’s here to share with us what it’s like to work on a remote team, and some tips and best practices to get started.
Join us as we talk about how to create a cohesive atmosphere for your whole team, what you can do to try on remote work for size, and why boundaries are extra important in a distributed environment.
You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Skye Evans.
Solving Salesforce problems for good.
“I make good things happen for nonprofits on Salesforce, that’s what I do every day,” Skye says. As a Cloud Consultant at Cloud for Good, she’s a mix of a project manager, Salesforce admin, troubleshooter, and magician. It’s all about working with clients to discover their pain points and then developing the best and most elegant way to solve those problems on Salesforce. After that, it’s about training clients to get the most out of their implementation to make sure that new efficiencies translate into their workflow.
Why remote work requires more intentionality.
Skye’s not just on the podcast for her amazing job, however. She’s also an experienced remote worker. One of the first things to understand is the difference between a remote team and a virtual company. Remote teams are often groups of individuals who work together with other people in a central office. In a virtual company, however, everyone’s distributed so there isn’t that difference between the people who see each other every day and the people who work from home.
“As a company, being really thoughtful about how to make sure people who aren’t physically located in the office are being included and you have a really robust communications plan is important,” Skye says. “One of the best ways to do that is to have regular, standing, short meetings,” she adds, because you’re able to plan changes around them and make sure that everyone's on the same page.
The difficult part is that being in an office comes with a lot of visual cues that are helpful when you’re trying to get someone’s attention for a quick thing without totally distracting them. For a remote team, that means having a conversation about not only what are the best ways to reach out, but also how to keep calendars to help everyone not step on each other’s toes.
Setting the right boundaries.
One of the biggest keys to working from home is being diligent about maintaining a separation between when you’re working and when you’re not working. Even if you spend most of your time right now in an office, you’ve probably given in to the temptation to pull out your phone and respond to a few emails when there’s nothing on TV. Having a place where you specifically go to get work done can help you establish those boundaries. “I think a lot of folks who work remotely almost feel the need to prove themselves more,” Skye says, “so there’s a tendency to overcompensate for it.” Instead, you need to find ways to draw that line and stop working when it’s time to take a break.
In a more fully remote environment, it can be hard to establish the same kind of vibe that collocated teams create. One thing that’s helped Skye is to schedule social virtual meetings. “We refer to them as ‘virtual coffees,’” she says, “think about the kind of interactions you would have an office if you’re standing at the coffee pot making a cup of coffee and another employee comes over.” Skye will often schedule these kinds of meetings across teams to give people who don’t normally work together a chance to get to know each other, and she’ll even do them with clients, too. For Skye, it’s about building that foundation of trust that helps them have confidence in her to follow her advice.
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Full Show Transcript
Mike Gerholdt: Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast where we talk product, community and careers to help you become an awesome Salesforce admin. I'm Mike Gerholdt, and today we have Skye Evans on the podcast. Skye's a member of our amazing Vetforce community and is here to talk to us about what it's like to work on a remote or virtual team. Maybe you're deciding if you have a remote role that is right for you, Skye has some answers to help you get started. So let's waste no more time and let's get Skye on the podcast. Hi, Skye. Welcome to the podcast.
Skye Evans: Thanks for having me.
Mike Gerholdt: Let's get started. For those of you that don't know, because Skye, you have a really cool Twitter handle, S-K-Y-E_force, Skye_force. It's where all the clouds live. Let take a second and just introduce yourself, what do you do and how'd you get into the Salesforce ecosystem?
Skye Evans: Yeah. So I make good things happen for nonprofits on Salesforce. That's what I do every day. My title is Cloud Consultant at Cloud for Good. And a consultant role is a great mix of project manager, and admin, and troubleshooter, and magician, so really working with the clients, helping them figure out their pain points, designing the best or most elegant way to solve for that on Salesforce, and then also training them to be successful users going forward.
Mike Gerholdt: Magician not wizard or miracle worker.
Skye Evans: Correct.
Mike Gerholdt: Those are all equal titles, I think. So one thing I wanted to dive into and change up the format a little bit of the podcast is really talk to you about your expertise and what you do because I feel there's the topic that I want to talk on today is really diving into being a remote employee or working on a remote team.
Mike Gerholdt: And I think in our pre-call we already had some ideas about that, but understanding what happens if you're an admin or a consultant and you don't drive into home office or the office every single day, and what your work life looks like, and how you get things done. Because selfishly, I'm going on, let's see, six years now of being a remote employee, and by that I mean not having to go to an office to get work done, and it was a bit of a switch. I would say that most all of my friends have made that transition, either some before me or some during that six years, and it's becoming more and more common, at least for some of us who live in the fly over states, to not have to drive somewhere for work. And I've also seen it in the trailblazer community. A lot of new people to our community are coming in saying, "Hey, I want to be an admin" or they're looking to hire and "I want to be a remote admin." So Skye, you're going to be our expert today and we're going to chat through that concept, but let's get started.
Mike Gerholdt: You brought up the topic right away of remote teams versus virtual companies, so I'm going to use that as our foundation for starting the conversation today. Can you tell me the difference between a remote team and a virtual company?
Skye Evans: Yeah, I think this is a point that gets overlooked often in the conversation about working not in an office location. Remote teams are often individuals or groups of individuals who work outside of an office environment and then there is a counterpart or additional people who do work in an office. And where this is different from a virtual company is a virtual company does not have that centralized office location, so everybody in a virtual company works remotely as opposed to there being some in the office and some out of the office.
Skye Evans: I think this is a really important distinction to make because the cultures can be very, very different. And when you're talking about a remote working culture, when you have that segment of people who do still work in an office, they are centrally located, they see each other at the water cooler, they sit down together for lunch, they get to share their birthday cake on the monthly birthday celebration, there can be a gap or a divide even with all of the best of intentions being put in place to create a cohesive culture for the folks who are not in the office. So a virtual company is often just by default of the fact that there is no office, that gap isn't there. Everyone is remote, everyone is a virtual member of the team and there's not that, "Well, gee, I'm sitting here and everybody's in the office eating cake and I'm just having my crackers."
Mike Gerholdt: Right. I've definitely been a part of that. I immediately thought of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine eats J. Peterman's 70-year-old wedding cake because she has to have her 4:00 PM sugar fix.
Mike Gerholdt: I think that's an interesting point, so have you been a part of a team where there was office cohorts and you were the person that was remote and felt like you were missing out on that comradery, I'll call it?
Skye Evans: Absolutely. My first Salesforce position was with a company based out of New York city, and the team I was on was about 60 to 70% remote and the rest of the staff worked out of the central New York office. So part of it, there's the social piece that you miss out on, but there's also just the hallway conversations or the across the desk or over the cubicle conversations that are work-based that you miss. And so as a company being really thoughtful about how to make sure people who aren't physically located in the office are still being included in those kinds of conversations or that you have a really robust communication plan to make sure that if something's changing, if something's getting rolled out or rolled back or updated, that everybody knows about it. You're not just standing there in the office and shouting out, "Hey y'all, we're using this folder now instead of that folder there." It has to be much more intentional.
Mike Gerholdt: So give me an example of that, how do you help with your coworkers or in that situation be more inclusive of others that aren't exactly in the office at that time?
Skye Evans: Yeah. One of the best ways to do that is to have regular standing short meetings. And so if you know every Wednesday from 11 to 11:15 we're just going to have a quick team update and we're going to talk about anything that's changed, anything that is changing or coming up, and having that be the avenue of communication and it's established. And if somebody tries to share something in the office on a Thursday, you say, "Great, but let's hold off rolling it out or launching that until we have the call on Wednesday." And just having to be very intentional and sticking to that is, I think, probably one of the hardest parts because you tend to think like, "Oh yeah, let's move on it," right? Everything happens at the speed of light. But being able to have those set scheduled times or communication channels, so whether you're using Slack, or Zoom, or Gchat, or whatever, making sure that the path of that communication is clearly understood by virtual remote and or in-the-office staff members.
Mike Gerholdt: I like that, rules of the road. Things we take for granted, being in the office, you can just walk by and say stuff or pop into somebody's desk. So I'd be curious to know how you adjusted to people not coming by your desk or you not being able to just get up and pop over to a coworker. Because, selfishly for me, eight years I worked in an office before I started working from home and I would all the time pop in and just go over to somebody's desk and say something quick. And I find now working from home like, "Oh, I don't know, the little green button in chat isn't lit, so are they not at their desk." Should I say hi or are they on a call?" These are the things that go through my head. I'd be curious, what do you do to either get around that or just make it happen so that it is a little bit more of a collaborative environment.
Skye Evans: Yeah, that's a great question. And that was something I did actually really struggle with when I started working remotely, I didn't want to feel like I was bothering someone. And when you're in the office you can kind of look and be like, "Oh, are they on the phone or are they on a webinar? Are they heads-down building something and I shouldn't interrupt them?" But I do think that even in the office, those visual signals can get lost on some people, so I had to learn to get over that fear or that hesitation. But also as a team, we had some conversations about what are the best ways to reach out. And so some of the teams that I've worked on, some remote teams, we do start off sort of looking, like you said, is the little green icon next to their user lit up to show that they're active and they're available or is it red or are they marked as do not disturb? But also something as simple as checking someone's calendar before reaching out, whether it's a phone call or a chat.
Skye Evans: And so as a team we had to get really diligent about maintaining our calendars and being able to block time. And if something has the client's name in the appointment time, don't interrupt that because that's a client phone call. But if it's just a block of time for build or for sprint or whatever, knowing that those were sort of acceptable times where you could reach out. But also just getting over the, it's not about me. "If I send Jason a message in chat and he doesn't respond back in 30 seconds, he's not mad at me, he's not upset. Maybe he is grabbing a cup of coffee." There has to be a little bit of the most generous possible assumption, "Why are they not responding to me? Well, let me give them a generous assumption that they are busy or they have stepped away or maybe they're actively involved in another chat with someone else and aren't able to switch back and forth."
Mike Gerholdt: As somebody who is looking to get into, maybe transition to remote work, what would be some advice about the space or some things that you've adjusted or changed about your home environment that's made it more conducive to work?
Skye Evans: I think the first thing, if someone's looking at moving into a remote or a virtual company, I would say if there's any way possible for you to test it out first, so whether this means in your current position just asking to work from home one or two days a week or, "Oh my kid's going to be out of summer school but not starting regular school, can I work from home this whole week?" Try it out. Because I've talked to a lot of folks who thought, "Oh my gosh, it would be perfect. I would be so happy if I had a remote job and I didn't have to drive 40 minutes each way into the office," whatever. And then they get in there and they just really struggle. And it can be for a lot of different reasons, but changing jobs itself is hard. And then to have gone through all that change, only to find out it's not working for you can be really disheartening. So if there's any way to test it out, dip your toe in the water before you dive in, I think that that's a good first step.
Skye Evans: But as far as setting up the home office, I've seen as many different configurations as there are people working from home. I have some coworkers who they're perfectly happy to be sitting on the couch working on the tiny little laptop screen, using the little feel pad on the laptop, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I could never do that." I've got my two monitors, my ergonomic keyboard, ergonomic mouse, I've got a treadmill desk because I like to stand up and move throughout the day. So really just being thoughtful what works well for you and what you need to be productive.
Skye Evans: And I would say, really try to have your own space. Working from the kitchen table is okay if you're doing it one day here or there, but when you need to really be able to block out distractions and focus on what you're doing, having a dedicated space can make it much easier for you to focus.
Skye Evans: And then on the flip side of that, having your work stuff makes it so much easier to walk away at the end of the day. And I think this is something that I've seen it in a few blog posts where remote workers tend to actually work longer hours because works right there so you're like, "Oh okay, well I'm going to have dinner with the family and then when I put the kids to bed I'm just going to log on for just a few more minutes." Now granted with even people who work based in an office, if they bring their laptop home or the persistent phone and checking your email on the phone, but being able to close the door, or pull the curtain or whatever it is that you do, and shut it down at the end of the day because there is such a tendency to just be like, "Oh well I can just keep working because I don't have to worry about traffic on the way home or trying to find parking spots." It's very tempting to just keep working and so being able to, whatever trigger it is for you, if it's an alarm that goes off and says, okay, it's time to quit and shut it down, having that as a separate space makes it that much easier to do.
Mike Gerholdt: I was literally just going to ask you about boundaries, and I'm so glad you touched on that because I do feel there are times, and I'm guilty of it, "Oh there's nothing on TV," the irony is there's 500 channels, but there's nothing on TV and you just grab the work phone and, "I'll just answer some emails."
Skye Evans: Yeah, and it's even more tempting when you're like, "Oh, I don't even have to do it on this tiny little screen. I can just log in real quick and build that report or send that email." But with that temptation, it really is a boundaries issue, having to be able to say, okay, I'm done. And I think a lot of folks who work remotely almost feel the need to prove themselves more because people in the office, "Oh, well, maybe they think I'm not working if I don't answer every call as soon as it comes in or respond to every chat. They're going to think I'm just binge watching the latest show." And so there is that tendency to overcompensate for it. And being able to just draw that line and say "No, if quitting time in the office is five o'clock then at five o'clock I'm shutting it down and walking away."
Mike Gerholdt: Right. Yup. And I've actually had managers at other companies talk to me about, some of the salespeople who are remote or whatever, well they probably only work half days, and I feel there's probably a group of people that if they can't see their employees, they just assume that they're not working. If they're off in an office and even to some degree, if their chat light isn't green, "Oh, then they must not be working." No, they could just be going to the bathroom. The one time you check chat, they could be just going in the bathroom. No different than if you walk past their desk and saw the screensaver was on, they didn't leave for the day.
Skye Evans: I think those managers have that issue, whether you're remote or not. It becomes more of an issue when you're not in the office. Those are the kinds of folks that would tend towards micro-managing, even if you're in a location based position. But that matter of trust is really important, and so talking about boundaries, setting expectations, what is the level of work that I'm expected to put out so that I'm not unintentionally under working, but I'm also not killing myself trying to prove that I'm a valid member of the team just because I don't sit next to everybody else?
Mike Gerholdt: Right. Yeah, completely agree. And I think what you're touching on is another topic I wanted to bring up, but is really about culture, how remote organizations or virtual companies build culture between employees that don't get to see each other or physically interact with each other every single day. So I'd love to know anything that you do to help build the culture of collaboration or whatever, between you and other employees, or things that companies you've worked for that I think are really setting that example of how to build culture with a remote or virtual team.
Skye Evans: Yeah. I think again, being really intentional is key. So when I was managing a mostly remote team, I received some great feedback from my supervisor that, "You can't tell your team members to quit at quitting time" and then you still beyond two hours later. Because even though I'm saying, "No, no, no guys, you go ahead, shut it down and go home. Family time is family time," but if I'm then sort of sneaking back into the office and doing more work, it's an unspoken expectation that they should be doing the same thing or this is what it takes to get ahead in the company. So being able to recognize when your leadership behavior has a negative or an unintended consequence is very important.
Skye Evans: And then also just being really proactive about communication. So on both of the remote teams that I've had the pleasure of working on, being sure to have both regularly scheduled team meetings where people can get together and ask for help, offer help, answer questions, share best practices in a team setting. But then also in one-on-one settings. So having maybe regular weekly or every other week meetings with your direct supervisor just to have that face time, say what's coming up that I need to know about, what problems are you having? What barriers can I remove for you? How can I help you?
Skye Evans: But then also, and this is probably one of the hardest ones, and I even still struggle with this over four years into remote work, but having social virtual meetings.
Mike Gerholdt: Tell me more.
Skye Evans: Yeah. So we refer to them now as virtual coffees. And if you think about the kinds of interactions that you would have in an office, if you're standing at the coffee pot, making your cup of coffee and a coworker comes over, that's when you're usually talking about "What'd you do this weekend? Hey, how's the family doing? Is the kid feeling better? Oh I went to this great show, let me tell you all about it." Those sort of casual, non-work related interactions are really important for building teams and for feeling connected to other people. And so we regularly schedule virtual coffees, both within our teams, the people we work with regularly, but also across teams. So if you don't happen to work very often with your operations team, schedule in a virtual coffee where it's not you asking a question about the insurance policies, it's you saying, "Hey, how did your art show go last weekend? Tell me more about that." And making that time out of your day and making it okay to actually block that on your calendar and say, "You know what, I need some time to connect with people."
Skye Evans: And I've found it's very hard because you do, especially when you do what you love, you want to do it all the time, you want to be building, you want to be in there and solutioning or designing, and it can get very easy to just get wrapped up in that. But if you don't take the time to have those interpersonal connections, then you're not building sort of the well of goodwill across the team that you can then rely on when things go sideways, whether it's work things or personal things.
Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. I also find failure to do that means your communication with your coworkers feels like a one note situation, like you never really get to know your coworkers enough to just chat. With every meeting and interaction, it's very business-related, and so then the five or 10 minutes that somebody's late to a meeting like, "Hey. Hi, well just going to sit here and type because I haven't taken the time to know you personally."
Skye Evans: Yeah. And I do this even with my clients. So working remotely and virtually the past four plus years, I have only been onsite with clients a handful of times. All of the other-
Mike Gerholdt: Wow.
Skye Evans: Yeah. And which is great because I don't have to take time away from the family and things like that. But it's also been a matter of being really intentional about building that relationship with my clients. Even though it's not ongoing over the years like it is with coworkers, it's still really important for building that foundation of trust. So my clients aren't going to trust that the thing I'm recommending or suggesting really is the best thing for them if they don't feel like they know me and they can trust me. And so at the beginning of each of our calls, and we do almost all of ours virtual with webinars, and so we're able to see each other's faces and being able to just take the first couple minutes of a meeting just like you would in person when people are just coming into the room or putting their notebooks down, figuring out which seat they're going to sit in and you're chatting, how was your weekend?
Skye Evans: And one of the great things with being remote is that you can always talk about the weather, so you can say, "Hey, how's the weather on this other part of the country where I've never been this time of year?" And it's a really great icebreaker to sort of have folks from entirely different regions be able to compare and say, "Well, it's pretty hot down here in Texas," and my coworker up in Vermont is like, "Yeah, it's hot here too. It's 65 degrees." And so it's a really great opportunity to build that trust and that foundation with your clients, as well as your coworkers.
Mike Gerholdt: So one thing you touched on, and I'll bring it up briefly, is balance of time, and looking at your profile you have one, two, three, four, five certifications if I'm counting correctly?
Skye Evans: Yes.
Mike Gerholdt: A lot. How do you manage ... Because I know I talk to a lot of admins who are, "I've got all this work I have to do and I have to learn all this stuff in the spare time too," what's your approach to managing feeding your inner knowledge with also getting the work done?
Skye Evans: That's one of the ones where like, "Oh, if I could have five extra hours every week that would be great," and actually this is something I struggle with regularly and I get feedback from friends and family who are like, "Hey, really, you're going to another Salesforce event on a Saturday? Can we do something together instead?"
Mike Gerholdt: "Yeah, you can come to the Salesforce event with me."
Skye Evans: Right! For some reason, my spouse does not buy that. So yeah, there is definitely finding that balance. And one of the things that I've found in my roles is because I get to solve a bunch of really interesting issues for my clients, I rely on that as a lot of my opportunity for growth. So making sure that I talked to my director whenever projects are getting assigned and let them know what I want to learn about. So in my previous position, we didn't do a whole lot of upgrades for the nonprofit success pack, most of the clients that we had, we were getting them up and running and implementing them on Salesforce for the first time. And I said, "I'd really love to learn more about what it takes to upgrade a client who's on an older version of the nonprofit success pack." And so in being proactive and reaching out and telling her this is something I'm interested in, I was able to be assigned to several projects where that was one of the core deliverables. And so I sort of was able to get two birds with one stone and say, "Okay, I want to learn all of these pieces and components of an upgrade and I'm going to do it during work hours."
Skye Evans: Now, that's not always possible. But I think from an admin perspective there are always going to be opportunities to optimize your Salesforce account and being able to leverage that as a learning opportunity. So whether it's looking at release notes and seeing what great new features are coming down the pike and say, "Hey, I really need to brush up my skills on this piece of the platform because I think it would really help us to do this thing in our organization," and then it's not a matter of taking time away from work to learn something or taking time away from your personal life to learn something. You're sort of tag teaming it.
Mike Gerholdt: Nice. I like that. Why don't we end on your piece of advice for Salesforce admins who are looking to work, promote, or be part of a virtual team?
Skye Evans: Definitely, find another outlet for interpersonal connection.
Mike Gerholdt: Such as?
Skye Evans: This is something I hadn't expected. I'm a very outgoing, extroverted person, my family says I've never met a stranger, and I'm also a military spouse, which is what prompted me to get into the remote work because moving every three to four years and starting a career over was just not going to cut it. And so I had gone from working entirely in location-based positions to just bam, cutoff. All of a sudden it's just me and my office with my two dogs. And the first couple of weeks wasn't too bad, and then I started getting cabin fever a little bit and realized that, "Gee, I have gone four days without actually leaving the house except for maybe take my dogs for a walk." So when you're fully remote or working with a virtual company, finding other types of outlets. And this could be something as simple as working from a coffee shop for an afternoon or two out of the week or even finding a remote coworking space. Also, very handy to have a coworking space in your back pocket in case your internet goes down at home-
Mike Gerholdt: Smart.
Skye Evans: Yeah, because working on the cloud when there's no internet is no bueno. But being able to have some kind of outlet. So for some of my coworkers, this has been a fitness group, whether it's a running club or CrossFit or something like that, or craft groups, going out to social events with people, whatever it is, whatever is your thing, the thing that you like to do that fuels and energizes you. Make sure that you have that in place because otherwise your family is going to come home from school or from their location-based job and you're going to be bouncing off the walls because you haven't looked at another human for eight hours.
Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, that's true. That or the first person you run into on the dog walk, you talk their ear off.
Skye Evans: Exactly. Yeah.
Mike Gerholdt: Not to say I've done that. Not to say I've done that at all. Skye, this is great. I'm so glad we had this chance to sit down, hang out. I, of course had to make sure, but like every topic we cover on the Salesforce Admins podcast, there's a great Trailhead module called Virtual Collaboration. So we'll link to that in the show notes and then that way everybody can go through. And I think it ties in really closely to a lot of the things that we talked about today. So I do want to give a shout out to Katherine Clark of Vetforce who suggested us. And you did mention you were a former military ... I don't think you're ever really former. Once you're in and a part of that elite group that everybody looks up to, I think you're always a part of it. And on behalf of all of the Salesforce Admins, I want to thank you for your service. And a quick shout out that your Twitter handle is @Skye_force, Skye_force. We'll link that in the show notes too, which is really cool.
Mike Gerholdt: Skye, do you have any Salesforce events you're planning to go to in the month of September, October?
Skye Evans: Oh goodness. I mean we've got Salesforce Saturday and Trailhead Tuesdays that I try to make it to every chance I get, but nothing on the big scale. Just looking forward to hopefully being at Dreamforce in November.
Mike Gerholdt: Great. Well, I hope to see you there. Thanks for being on the podcast, Skye.
Skye Evans: Thank you. Have a wonderful day.
Mike Gerholdt: So a huge thanks to Skye for being with us today. We can't wait to see you at Dreamforce. And as someone who lives the remote lifestyle, there were some really great things that Skye pointed out like how important it is to create a cohesive atmosphere for the whole team. Every decision being made throughout the team needs to be intentional, so one of the best practices to achieve that is by having regular short standing meetings for team updates, established weekly, so that everyone is on the same page at the same time. And of course, that meeting will be the source of truth for everything. Another thing that we talked about was maybe you think you want to be on a remote team, however, it's hard for you to know if that lifestyle will work for you if you've never done it. So it never hurts, if you can work from home, maybe start with a couple of days at a time. Find a group, an office that you can set up inside your house that works for you. But of course, what's important is to be thoughtful about what you need to do to be productive, so having a dedicated space and also knowing when to walk away. Very important. And maintaining that work life balance is crucial to both your mental health and the relationship with your team and your family.
Mike Gerholdt: Now, no matter what role you're in or what level you're at, you should always be striving to keep learning. And if you want to learn more about being an awesome admin, make sure you go to admin.salesforce.com. There are blogs, webinars, events, podcasts like this one you can find there. Make sure you subscribe and share this podcast with all of your friends. And of course, I'd highly encourage you to follow us on social. We are @salesforceadmns, no I, on Twitter. And you can find myself @mikegerholdt on Twitter as well. Skye Evans is on Twitter, yay. She can be found @Skye_force. Awesome. All right, I think we have everything paid off. It was really great to have Skye on the podcast, and I will see you in the cloud.